Does anyone here listen to punk-rock?

[wolfgang]

We all know that most punk bands aren't doing anything new these days...but can you say that the hardcore band that you listen to are? Hardcore is definitely not the place to be looking for innovation. Like I said before, punk-rock is the most diverse genre of music ever...where else could you have bands like The Cramps, Chrome, Metal Urbain, Manich Depresiv, Flipper, Devo, DRI, Suburban Lawns, Rezillos, Screamers, Suicide, Unknowns, No means No, Big Black, The Pack, The Milkshakes, Killdozer, X, Negative Approach, La Peste, Vopos, The Ex, The Valves, Wipers, and countless thousands of others, playing withing the same genre? And I could make a list just as diverse, of modern punk bands. Can you say that antiquated punk rock music is that diverse?

Tons of kids starting abnds and doing zines? Great...where do I get a copy of all these new zines? When are these new bands playing? What local labels are we talking about? I don't know of any local punk/hardcore labels of note.

Why aren't people doing things in this town??? Really...it's because nobody cares. You guys have your scene and do stuff for yourselves...but mostly it's supporting your friends bands, and bringing in bands you wanna see. Great....but what other shows do you check out? The hardcore kids support some metal and noise shit, maybe some indie crap....but I bring a touring punk band to town and you guys won't check that out. I DO have the misfortune of living in a town where the kind of music you want to hear isn't really what's going on. That will change though...all you have to do is...well, SOMETHING.

Not to date myself, but I've been going to punk-rock shows for 24 years (I was really young when I started...so I'm not that old). I've seen alot of things come and go, evolve and change in that time...there's alot out there, and this city is missing ALOT. Shit, I'm desperate anough to come on here to try to find people to chat about music with.

Fact is...I'll check anything out. I'm always looking for new bands, and I check out every singel band you guys mention on here. Here's my question...you've heard me squawk bullshit on here about antiquated punk rock music. I grew up on 80's hardcore, love 70's/80's punk, garage and powerpop...what current or recent bands would you recommend to a guy who hates togh guy bullshit, metal influenced hardcore and retarded screaming vocals? Can anyone give me a few suggestions of bands I might wanna check out?

[tylerp]

When are these new bands playing?

my house

Great....but what other shows do you check out?

I go to tons of shows. yeah it's metal, noise, """antiquated punk rock music""" comprising of some very different styles of hardcore from the tough to the technical to the 90's screamo type stuff, indie rock, uvic recitals, dj sets, ska shows, the list goes on.... the only thing you're arguing in support of is a narrow genre defined by a single decade, and you seem to admit yourself that not all the bands playing that style are that great. also I don't recall ever seeing you at a thrashmadonna show, or dtbs show, or wayne powerman show, or (whatever cordell's band was called) show, and those should have fallen in with your interests. you'd probably pass it off as "not good enough" but I don't see how you have a right to complain with such a narrow idea of what's good.

you don't like the attitude at our hardcore shows. but I've been to a large number of "punk shows" that I like the attitude at. people breaking bottles, drinking outside all ages venues, spilling shit everywhere, and ultimately getting the venue shut down.

Great...where do I get a copy of all these new zines?

ask Willa for a copy of his, I quite enjoyed it.

Can you say that antiquated punk rock music is that diverse?

yeah. compare for example... fucked up, logs, creeper, hoods, walls, failures, litany for the whale, and slingshot. it'll sound like eight very different bands. I'm sure I could come up with more that are very different. ghostlimb! tragedy! okay, I'm done.

I guess one of the things that does bring them together is the "retarded screaming vocals" but I'm pretty into retarded screaming vocals. oh, except slingshot I guess, but I'm willing to bet that you're not a fan of the pop punk / hardcore approach.

Tyler, you call 80's hardcores and punk-rock boring...nut I KNOW you listen to some super mopey indie pap...c'mon!

I love mopey indie pap! yeah! I think it's way more interesting than the slew of similar-sounding punk rock bands. TO ME. this is my subjective opinion as a young white 20-something who was a toddler in the 80's. all this really comes down to is that you like different music than us and we have enough people with common interests to maintain what we have here. this could just as easily be a town of fans of your music and I could be the one complaining that no bands sound like orchid anymore. I'm sorry that there aren't more people who like the same music as you.

hell, it'd be way easier for us if those fall in archaeaea fans actually liked our kind of hardcore. we'd have way more kids at shows.

also, for the record, I'm willing to see a large number of bands on Nominal and I know you like that record label too. I didn't see you at the shearing pinx show. I could have gotten you in for free if it was about "spending so much money on two boring bands" or whatever. but you just didn't go.

hey, why don't you put a punk rock show on at YOUR house?

[wolfgang]

Look ...I'm not trying to piss people off, or put you down, etc. I'm just trying to meet some people with similar interests, and maybe cultivate a punk scene here. Victoria hasn't had much of a punk scene since the early 80's...maybe that's why you guys don't like that stuff. Dayglo Abortions, Alchoholic White Trash, etc, etc, etc aren't what punks about....but that seems to be what Victoria thinks it's about. Yeah, you guys like what you like...I get that. I won't critisize it. I just don't get listening to hardcore, metal and noise...and then indie pop...and nothing in between. I don't get people listening to antiquated punk rock music, but not listening to where it came from. I'm not arguing in favor of a genre of music defined by a single decade...I'm arguaing in favor of punk-rock...60's garage, 70's punk, 80's hardcore, and the modern bands that carry the torch, including some antiquated punk rock music. I think this shit is VITAL. Sure you listed 8 bands that sound different than each other...but in the grand scheme of things, how different are they really. How different does the genre of Hardcore allow them to be?

You don't recall seeing me at any Thrashmadonna shows? I only saw one or two...would you know me if you saw me?

You'd see any nominal records bands. Where were you for the Vapid/Juvie/Twin Crystals show a few weeks ago? Wer you at the B-Lines show last summer? WHat about other, similar and eaqually cool bands that aren't on that label? Would you show up to support them. I've got two shows coming up in the next few months with Nominal bands playing them..we'll see if you show up. Why wasn't I at the Shearing Pinx show? Beacause I don't really like them. I sat down and listened to their records, and confirmed that I'm not a fan of most of their recorded output...considered giving 'em a chance live, but the cover was too high for me. If I woulda known I coulda got in free, I mighta gone...

Why don't I put on a punk show at my place? I would if it was feasible. I have a 4 month old baby and a wife who doesn't want bands playing in the living room while she's trying to work in the office. The fact is, it is MY house...it's the most expensive thing I own, and I can't afford to repair it. If I was renting it might be a different story, but for now, I have to book bands at bars and shit instead.

So...where do I get a copy of these zines??? What are the killer new bands that are popping up?

[trappedinside]

I find it very ironic that you keep going after people for being musically close-minded.

[dalamar501]

[quote="wolfgang"I just don't get listening to hardcore, metal and noise...and then indie pop...and nothing in between. [/quote]

Good to know that you aren't trying to piss people off. This is the last thing i think that is contradictory because we do listen to some older stuff that counts as that "in between." It may not be to the scope of what you listen to but hey we know the history. We know how important that is.


Also just reminded me about that B-Lines show last year. Fuck i wish i made it to that, I saw blines in Vancouver last i think. They have their new 7" as a chart at CFUV.

[wolfgang]

I go after people for being musically closed-minded because alot of people don't actively look for new music that strays from what they or their social group, deemes "cool" or "good", etc. If I list out 30 bands that you've never heard of...how many do you go check out? Most people look at the list and if they haven't heard any names, they ignore it....some people will look up 5 to 10. I may not like alot of what I hear, but I will listen to all 30, every time.

I'm not here to make enemies...I'm here to meet like-minded people...something I've found quite difficult to do in Victoria. I'm juts trying to find out if I have anything in common with anyone...

[dalamar501]

i find most lists when i look at lists on the internet i usually won't check most of the bands out.
Which is true. If i am handed a list in real life i am more likely to look into a lot of the bands.
Or if i am somewhere where i can listen right away.

There are only like a few times every few months that i actually use the internet to find music... i am pretty lazy would rather go listen to music on my record player or something

[tylerp]

Those bands I listed are very different from each other and allowed to be very different. I don't see the close boundaries in hardcore that you do. I think you have a lot of preconceived notions on how I see hardcore just like I might about the bands you've listed. I'm not checking every single one out. If there's one or two you think I'd like based on what I say I like, let me know. I can't make any suggestions for you because of how much you like and how little you like.

I saw Twin Crystals at Lucky. I saw B-Lines in Vancouver. I like both bands but once was enough for me since I'm not crazy about them and I much prefer the (now broken up) Mutators and Shearing Pinx. I got the Twin Crystals LP and listen to it on occasion. Post about your shows in that "upcoming shows" thread. Maybe I will come out. I can't go to -everything- but considering I go to work and school full time and still manage to check out a couple of shows a week and put them on myself, I think I'm doing okay.

I like a lot of music that people here don't think is cool. I brought Loma Prieta and Kidcrash here and, as far as I know, nobody really knew or cared about them until they went to the show and checked them out. I like a lot of shit. I like Jamiroquai and Moses Mayes, as far as you could get from hardcore.

I just don't get listening to hardcore, metal and noise...and then indie pop...and nothing in between.

So, to you, punk rock is between those two extremes? It's not a two dimensional line of "hard" to "soft" - it's a giant three dimensional spectrum. Can I put pop punk in the middle? Cause I like Set Your Goals and that sort of stuff. Where does 20th century classical music fit in? New jazz? Old jazz? Spice Girls? Don Caballero?

Why don't I put on a punk show at my place? I would if it was feasible.

Everyone has an excuse not to. We run the risk of expensive fines and eviction every time we do one. It's easier for you since you own it. You're putting your wife and possessions above what might be a great venue, and that's cool, but you have to understand that we're putting energy and risk into keeping things going here as far as the stuff we like goes. I was just using that as an example to say that you could do the same. Maybe not house shows, and you are doing shows, but putting energy into something is a lot harder and more rewarding than complaining about everyone else.

So...where do I get a copy of these zines??? What are the killer new bands that are popping up?

Ask Willa on here. If you prefer to phone him, send me a message and I'll give you his number. The Damages show on Nov. 7 has a new band playing, featuring Mike of Thrashmadonna and Steg. Beach Defense. White Ribs from Nanaimo are a relatively new band that were incredible two nights ago.

[wolfgang]

Sounds like you're placing alot of importance on the stuff that you and your friends do and see, the shows you put on, etc. I don't choose not to put on house shows...it isn't possible for me to do so. I did that for years when I was younger, but now it's not possible for me to do that...and I wouldn't be able to book most of the bands I want to at a house anyway, and make it work. Good for you guys for opening your house up to shows, but don't pat yourself on the back too much.

I don't know how you can say that I like very little and like so much...I've been buying records for almost 24 years now...you'd think if I hated so much, I'd have run out of stuff to buy by now. There is so much music that I enjoy, that I had to limit what I buy, etc to a few genres that I enjoy the most. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in finding music I like outside those genres.

Putting energy into things is alot harder than complaining...but complaining about things is a nice little break from putting energy into things that very few people give a shit about. I end up booking bands, doing zines and radio shows, spinning records at bars, putting out records and playing in bands for myself...and that's cool...but it would be nice to find some people locally that share some of the same interests, or who might take an interest in what I'm doing...you know.

Look...I'm gonna applaud anyone in town who's taking the time and expending the energy to do ANYTHING musically. I'd just like to know that this town might be able to support more than it currently does. There are very few options currently, and people seem to accept that...I'm just looking for people who are looking for something more. I'd like to find younger kids who still dig punk-rock, and that seems like a harder task here than in most cities, and I'm wondering why...

[trappedinside]

Who are you to keep saying that nobody here listens to anything outside their social circle? One of my good friends is a longhaired, patch wearing, stereotypical crust/metal/grind asshole, but lately whenever I'm hanging out with him all he listens to is Hank Williams, Beat Happening, Bikini Kill and Cecil Taylor... he doesn't post on this forum but he's at tons of shows and plays in bands, you'd probably recognize him if you saw him. I love grind and metal but I'd just as soon listen to Leonard Cohen or The Fugs or Madvillain or King Crimson. I even came to that Nobunny show you put on and thought it was rad, I'd watch Bash Bros over 80% of grind bands. Maybe you'll have an easier time finding common ground with people if you drop all this blind categorizing... you yell at us for being close-minded because we aren't hugely into this one little specialized area of 70s/early 80s straight ahead punk that you like, you come on all these forums, act like an asshole towards everyone then complain that nobody is listening to the bands you list off... if you want people to get into the music you like you should maybe reconsider the way you present yourself. I'm totally into finding more cool 80s hardcore bands, I mostly just know the main stuff like Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, The Misfits and whatnot (as well as stuff that influenced the kinda shit I'm really into like Siege, Deep Wound, Heresy, The Neos, Larm, early DRI and other crap that you probably find too close to grindcore anyway) but when you come on here and immediately start going off about how pathetic the music scene we all put our time and energy into is you'll find people are probably not too inclined to hear about what you think. Give us the benefit of the doubt that maybe we are capable of appreciating shit other than antiquated punk rock music and whatever else you don't like, I'd imagine you probably haven't met very many people who post on this forum in real life and therefore I think it's sad that you come on here immediately throwing around these generalizations about our collective taste in music. If you want people to get into the tunes you like and coming to your shows and whatever you should maybe consider spending some more of your time here in cyberspace actually talking about the tunes you like rather than complaining.

[wolfgang]

To tell you the truth, you'r eright, I haven't met many of the poeple who post on here...and you're also right that I made far to many assumptions and generalizations. I KNOW you all don't listen to ONLY antiquated punk rock music and metal....and I KNOW that not all antiquated punk rock music and metal sucks, etc, etc. Lokk I'm not the asshole that you guys are making me out to be...I'm on this board for a reason. Shit, Victoria has no punk scne worth talking about, so I;m really starting to appreciate the hardcore, metal and noise scenes. I just want local kids to know that there's mor ethan that out there...that there's more than what Victoria currently has to offer. I wsih there were more garage bands...I wish there were more punk bands...I wish there were more wierdo art bands...and I wish that when I bring these bands over, more people will go see them. Whatever...a buncha wishes that don't mean shit. How about some more mixed bills and some collaborative shows? If I bring over a couple bands for a bar show, maybe they could play one of your house shows beforehand with a couple of hardcore bands.

Honestly....if I come off as an ass, it's not my intention (most of the time). I chosen to live in Victoria, and will probably do so for the rest of my life...I plan to make it as interesting for myself as possible...

[wolfgang]

P.S. - Thanks for coming to that Nobunny show...retarded punk bands playing on a weekenight can be alot of fun....even in Victoria!

[ebony]

Why aren't people doing things in this town??? Really...it's because nobody cares. You guys have your scene and do stuff for yourselves...but mostly it's supporting your friends bands, and bringing in bands you wanna see. Great....but what other shows do you check out? The hardcore kids support some metal and noise shit, maybe some indie crap....but I bring a touring punk band to town and you guys won't check that out. I DO have the misfortune of living in a town where the kind of music you want to hear isn't really what's going on. That will change though...all you have to do is...well, SOMETHING.

sorry, no. we all get emails from all kinds of bands and we try to put on shows for anyone who contacts us, OR if we cant do it, we forward their information to somebody that can. until recently starting shows at the house, we were renting venues. so how can you possibly think we could put on that many shows using our OWN money and our OWN resources. i cant put on more than one show every 3 months because i would be fucking broke as fuck. alot of the fest that we put on is our own money. now do you know somebody that would do something like that out of pocket? forfeit groceries for two weeks so that they could give ther share of the costs for a small music fest? i doubt it. we are young, and we are doing this. if its not amazing in somebody elses eyes, its still something. and its something huge to us. and thats what matters.

im glad you are raising argument on here, because it gets a discussion going. i think it is safe to say that we all have some similar, and some very different opinions. actually... out of the people that you are directing your questions to, we are a really great group of friends. but none of us like even 75 percent of the same thing. thats why people are so attracted to knowing each other. because i want to know people that have just as many differences as they do similarities to me. we know you arent attacking us, but you make it seem like we are expected to please every single person involved in the punk/hardcore/grind/whatever else scene, and how can we do that. its impossible. we try our best to accomodate any band comming into town. maybe there arent as many local punk or hardcore bands right now, but its not easy for everyone to just have a band going at all times. i do appreciate what you are trying to get across, but i think you didnt quite word yourself the right way at the beginning.

[ebony]

actually, also, i would like to add that Willa and i get together sometimes to discuss shows we could put on.. and we literally sit there for 10 minutes in silence writing down names of ANY band we can think of, local, that would be interested in playing one of our shows. they are not all our friends bands, actualy most of them are people we are only faintly aquainted with. and those lists are of very mixed genres. i just wanted to add that. because i personally will support somebody that tries hard and wants to play music no matter who they are or who they know.

[Hollow]

Okay, I'm gonna lock this thread. Not trying to be a dick, but this whole thing is getting circular and will just continue to degenerate, and that's the last thing I want.

Wolfgang, you obviously have a lot to contribute music wise, and I would love to see a punk thread started in the Music Discussion forum. If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to copy the first four issues of my zine for you. Try checking out blogs for the type of music/navel gazing shit that zines used to do. They seem to have taken over in that capacity.

Bryan, though, has a good point. I don't think you MEANT to be a dick, but you were. I get where you're coming from (Christ, there wasn't a Hardcore scene here for almost two years, I'm surprised it's making the comeback it is) but you came across as incredibly close minded and that's bound to put up some defenses for people. Try thinking a bit before you post next? PM me if you're super pissed about me locking the thread, I'm more than happy to discuss this in a more private way, but this is just bound to get ugly.

Cranky old dude OUT.