National socialism and music.

[grind/bro]

Hahahahhaa Willa. Boyd Rice isn't In Death In June and he is not gay. You are thinking of Doulas P. You sure you actually "love" that band?

[trappedinside]

what exactly does listening to burzum have to do with "accepting him into our scene"?

[tylerp]

I'm down with listening to music by sketchy people. I'm sure there are many examples of classic punk and hardcore bands with people with different ideals, not necessarily nazi or white power, but still extremely against-the-grain and borderline offensive. I almost think it's important. I understand silencing like speech but anything outside of this is cool with me.

this reminds me of a story from another message board. there was a noise dude who someone claimed raped them. rape is an extremely complicated issue, but I don't think the correct response to this is to stop listening to the guy's music and to try and wreck his entire career and life (as some people on the internet tried). punk is not supposed to be over-cautious and over-PC. rape is horrible but so is the idea that a claim can ruin someone's entire life. I wish the legal system were more robust for handling this shit PROPERLY.

what about gg allin? flipper? henry rollins? bad brains? lots of these have had ideals that do not match my own, but their music still rules. except gg allin. dude was just in shitty bands. but I see what some kids might idolize about him.

[Hollow]

Hahahahhaa Willa. Boyd Rice isn't In Death In June and he is not gay. You are thinking of Doulas P. You sure you actually "love" that band?

hahahahah fuck. Okay, sorry. DURR. Yeah, I do love that band. I'm just not good at actually remembering names. I do this constantly. Just replace "Boyd Rice" with "Douglas P." in that last post. I'm uh...I'm gonna just go over here....


also, to respond to classwar, I get that point of view and totally respect it. If someone were to come to a show wearing a swastika or spouting pro-fascist sentiment I would tell them to get fucked and get out. However, I'm not willing to tell someone they're not welcome at a show just because they wear a Burzum shirt. Like I said, Varg is an asshole, but Burzum itself isn't a NS band. I don't see them as promoting fascist sentiment, just promoting a band they like.

[Human-Demise]

to be honest i do refuse to listen to bad brains, i know they're soooo good, but i just cant get behind it.

[Hollow]

to be honest i do refuse to listen to bad brains, i know they're soooo good, but i just cant get behind it.

You know they apologized for saying that shit about gay people, right?

[CodyCreepcore]

the behemoth on the list is under France. the blackened death metal behemoth is from poland

[reece]

Alexis im sure 89% of the wigger slam death metal bands you adore are filled with homophobes.

i wouldnt care if bad brains were pro-slavery those tunes are unbeatable.

[Human-Demise]

to be honest i do refuse to listen to bad brains, i know they're soooo good, but i just cant get behind it.

You know they apologized for saying that shit about gay people, right?

yeah, its still sits really weird with me. though.

the behemoth on the list is under France. the blackened death metal behemoth is from poland

me mistake, thank you.

Alexis im sure 89% of the wigger slam death metal bands you adore are filled with homophobes.

probably right, not many have been vocal about it though. waking the cadaver and cemetery rapist are the only ones that have said shit like that. and waking the cadaver is funny, i dont like them, and cemetery rapist is horrible and a drug fiend.

[SewnFlesh]

i wouldnt care if bad brains were pro-slavery those tunes are unbeatable.

i love how every conversation about lyrics/politics and music turns into a discussion about whether or not you can like burzum.

[classwar]

also, to respond to classwar, I get that point of view and totally respect it. If someone were to come to a show wearing a swastika or spouting pro-fascist sentiment I would tell them to get fucked and get out. However, I'm not willing to tell someone they're not welcome at a show just because they wear a Burzum shirt. Like I said, Varg is an asshole, but Burzum itself isn't a NS band. I don't see them as promoting fascist sentiment, just promoting a band they like.

i can agree, still i find it fucked up though, Knowing that one of the dudes in the band is openly a white nationalist is going to force me to walk over to the kid that is wearing a burzum shirt and ask him if he is down with NSBM or not(not in a supper hostile) that way, we can have a chat on the subject and all just like we are having here.

so far this is interesting, good debates.

[tylerp]

you don't think it's at least a little invasive and annoying to accuse someone of liking a band that has a member who has views you disagree with? some people are able to separate the music from all that.

[classwar]

you don't think it's at least a little invasive and annoying to accuse someone of liking a band that has a member who has views you disagree with? some people are able to separate the music from all that.

I do not see anything invasive with approaching some one that has a Burzum shirt to ask him (nicely) if he knows about what Varg's racist ideas and asking him what he thinks about that. I personally would never listen to any group that would have members that are white power even if it was Trial or Bane(my fav bands). Having a friendly discussion on these subject are very importent to the scence and the people in it. Maybe the guy would be more critical of what he listens to, or maybe he is NSBM and the discussion would only serve as an ideological confrentation that will hopfully change his mind.

I do not believe in tolerance for intolerance or live and let live. That is why i would rather talk to the guy and find out for my self whats hes about because for me listening to bands that have WP members is a good indication about what you stand for in general terms(well at less where i come from). The music i listen to is in a great way representative of what i am and who i am.

And lets say you would be wearing a Burzum shirt at a show, Dont take it bad if i come and chat with you, its not to start shit but more to make sure we dont have NSBM'S coming to shows and handing out shit. Im not a hostile guy in general......

[SewnFlesh]

And lets say you would be wearing a Burzum shirt at a show, Dont take it bad if i come and chat with you, its not to start shit but more to make sure we dont have NSBM'S coming to shows and handing out shit. Im not a hostile guy in general......

obviously this is a theoretical situation but at this point you would be the one who is forcing your ideology down someone else's throat, which is just as bad as what your trying to stop.

i'm anti this and anti that like the rest of the folks here i'm sure.. but i don't think its a good mentality to be in where your trying to police the scene so much. everyone has the right to freedom of expression i think.. even if they are an ignorant piece of shit.

[Human-Demise]

And lets say you would be wearing a Burzum shirt at a show, Dont take it bad if i come and chat with you, its not to start shit but more to make sure we dont have NSBM'S coming to shows and handing out shit. Im not a hostile guy in general......

obviously this is a theoretical situation but at this point you would be the one who is forcing your ideology down someone else's throat, which is just as bad as what your trying to stop.

i'm anti this and anti that like the rest of the folks here i'm sure.. but i don't think its a good mentality to be in where your trying to police the scene so much. everyone has the right to freedom of expression i think.. even if they are an ignorant piece of shit.

definitely dont need people policing the scene.

[Andrew]

i wouldnt care if bad brains were pro-slavery those tunes are unbeatable.

LOL!

[classwar]

And lets say you would be wearing a Burzum shirt at a show, Dont take it bad if i come and chat with you, its not to start shit but more to make sure we dont have NSBM'S coming to shows and handing out shit. Im not a hostile guy in general......

obviously this is a theoretical situation but at this point you would be the one who is forcing your ideology down someone else's throat, which is just as bad as what your trying to stop.

i'm anti this and anti that like the rest of the folks here i'm sure.. but i don't think its a good mentality to be in where your trying to police the scene so much. everyone has the right to freedom of expression i think.. even if they are an ignorant piece of shit.

well thats where you and me split for sure. having a discussion is not forcing some one to obey you or adopt your theory. This scene is one of understanding and tolerance yes, but how about people that believe in a fascist ideology like NSBM. dO WE TOLERATE THOSE WHO DO NOT tolerate.

The question is not do want to become Cops and police peoples mentality, but do we want our scene to serve as a safe haven for racist and fascist ideology under the principle of free speech........ my answer is no.

But i would like to repeat that i do not believe that someone wearing or listening to burzum is automatically NSBM.

[withdrawal204]

on the topic of boyd rice, i have his book "standing in two circles" which is a collection of his essays, and he IS that fascist. but to his credit, he doesn't seem to single out any specific group of people, but rather loathes all humanity in general.

[Human-Demise]

on the topic of boyd rice, i have his book "standing in two circles" which is a collection of his essays, and he IS that fascist. but to his credit, he doesn't seem to single out any specific group of people, but rather loathes all humanity in general.

except women, any body read his essay "Revolt Against Penis Envy" such a jag.

[ZACH ATTACK]

I'm more or less in agreement with you on most of what you're saying, but....

That is why i would rather talk to the guy and find out for my self whats hes about because for me listening to bands that have WP members is a good indication about what you stand for in general terms(well at less where i come from). The music i listen to is in a great way representative of what i am and who i am.

I'm not sure how much I agree with this. I mean, like I know some people who just flat out wont listen to band if they have shitty politics, which is a completley valid stance. Then i know other people, like me for example, who don't listen to music for lyrics so much as how the music sounds. I listen to some bands with politics I strongly disagree with (Skrewdriver, One Life Crew, Vegan Reich, just for some examples) simply because i like the way it sounds. I'm pretty PC guy with anarchist sympathies, but I like what I like. I wont ask anybody else to like it but I'd be pretty bummed if it came up in conversation and people automatically assumed I was some kind of racist homophobe.

Like I said though, for the most part I agree with you and I'm really just nit picking to keep myself entertained at this point.