Sound and Fury 2011

[Human-Demise]

tapes are cool. I'm just super paranoid about breaking records while coming back.

yo, nevermind the war hound shirt, i managed to order a rad limited one, its got the biohazard art on it. but thanks for being down with the idea.

[patvoytko]

yo whats up, my names pat. i play guitar in agitator.

i had a friend link me to this thread and there's a few things i'd like to clear up...

first off, let me say that its not my place to interpret martys lyrics for you; ultimately you can think and say what you want about them. im not here to try and change anyones minds about our band.

the song 'diseased' was written about a specific situation and a specific person and in no way a statement about the entire female gender. obviously we dont wish 'date rape' upon anyone or anything retarded.

if 'enter vice lords' wasnt your bag, our new record "walls closing in" will be out on six feet under records by the end of the month - maybe you'll like the lyrics on that one

look forward to seeing some of you at sound & fury

pat/agitator

[ZACH ATTACK]

It`s not my place to interpret my band-mate's lyrics for you but you're interpreting them wrong.

[Human-Demise]

It`s not my place to interpret my band-mate's lyrics for you but you're interpreting them wrong.

AYO

[ZACH ATTACK]

Dan Yemin = good dude

QFT.

And Puff, I think that there are times when you should ignore people. A good mark of maturity is the ability to pick your battles. Something like this, though, is worth pointing out and talking out against, IMO. It's somewhat indicative of a recent backlash against the feminist movement, and it's kind of frightening. That, and to quote Jordan, this is one of maybe five major straightedge bands going right now (he told me the other four, but I honestly don't remember them). The thought of some kid getting into hardcore, then getting into straightedge, and then finding these guys bothers me more than a little.

By no means am I saying people MUST talk about them, and if everyone else wants me to drop the subject then I'm cool with that. But I'm letting my opinion be known: those lyrics are fucked, and the mindset and politics they embrace are fucked. Also, they are REALLY REALLY terribly written. Like...damn. But that means jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

It just reads like something a 12 year old would write and doesnt seem worth my time and as for the feminist movement their biggest fight in the media right now is trying to raise awareness of rape culture by having women dress like sluts, this is PETA level laughable so theyve sank their own ship.

I know right? Women wanting to be able to dress how they want without getting raped is fucking dumb. I don't wear tube tops and I never get raped, feminists should take a tip.

[Rude Boy Puff]

Do I think the comment “women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized” is accurate? No, I understand rape is not usually about what the victim is wearing. The issue at hand here is respect. This officer made disrespectful remarks about sluts because he does not respect them and Im not sure what planet you live on if you think that the way you dress would not have an effect on how somebody views you. Men are not allowed to enter downtown bars wearing tap out and other fight gear, but shouldn't they be allowed to wear "whatever they want" and that list could go on all day. The officer in the future should keep his personal opinion at home when addressing the public he's sworn to protect, but other than that its just that a lack of respect. Making this the lynch pin of some movement based around respect is laughable.

[Rude Boy Puff]

Its like when that young lady tried to make an issue of not being allowed to board a sky train in Vancouver for her "fuck yoga" pin about free speech. People who skimmed that headline were outraged he had no right and what not and he didn't. What you had to actually read was that the only reason transit police were talking to her in the first place was that she didn't have a $2.50 train ticket.

[Hollow]

yo whats up, my names pat. i play guitar in agitator.

i had a friend link me to this thread and there's a few things i'd like to clear up...

first off, let me say that its not my place to interpret martys lyrics for you; ultimately you can think and say what you want about them. im not here to try and change anyones minds about our band.

the song 'diseased' was written about a specific situation and a specific person and in no way a statement about the entire female gender. obviously we dont wish 'date rape' upon anyone or anything retarded.

if 'enter vice lords' wasnt your bag, our new record "walls closing in" will be out on six feet under records by the end of the month - maybe you'll like the lyrics on that one

look forward to seeing some of you at sound & fury

pat/agitator

First off, thanks for actually coming on and responding in an intelligent way. Not something you see on the internet on a regular basis. I appreciate the respect.

Secondly, I stand by what I said earlier. I understand that he meant it for a specific person, but that doesn't really make it better in my opinion. I'm usually down for making fun of people in harsh ways, as I find it funny. However, I have lines and rape is one of them. Even wishing it on one person, or telling one woman that she brought it on herself (which is how I took those lyrics) is pretty disgusting to me. People do stupid things, and quite often deal with consequences that are wholly their fault. Rape is not a consequence. Rape is a violent, soul crushing act, and I don't really care if a girl was drinking; if she (or he, rape does happen to men too) gets roofied the only person responsible is the rapist.

I recognize I'm just one grumpy leftist bro on the west coast of Canada, so my opinion means jackshit in the grand scheme of things. But you should know that these lyrics are being interpreted this way, and whether or not you meant them to be seen as a general statement about women, that's how they're being taken. If you want that to change, I would suggest sitting your lead singer down and asking him to put a little more thought into his lyrics.

Or not. Honestly, I have no control over what you do with your life or your band. But if these are the sorts of lyrics you'll be promoting, I won't be supporting your band. I have very little in this world I honestly care about, but my ethics are one of them.

Again, thanks for coming on and talking to us, that took a lot of balls.

[ZACH ATTACK]

Do I think the comment “women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized” is accurate? No, I understand rape is not usually about what the victim is wearing. The issue at hand here is respect. This officer made disrespectful remarks about sluts because he does not respect them and Im not sure what planet you live on if you think that the way you dress would not have an effect on how somebody views you. Men are not allowed to enter downtown bars wearing tap out and other fight gear, but shouldn't they be allowed to wear "whatever they want" and that list could go on all day. The officer in the future should keep his personal opinion at home when addressing the public he's sworn to protect, but other than that its just that a lack of respect. Making this the lynch pin of some movement based around respect is laughable.

The issue isn't whether or not if the way one dresses influences the way people view you. It's not against the law to make assumptions based on superficial observations. The issue is public servants making apologies for sex offenders and telling women to cover up if they don't want to get raped instead of telling men not to rape people. Bars downtown are private enterprises and perfectly within their rights to have a dress code, and if this were an issue of some lady trying to get into a bar with a dress code and claiming discrimination I'd agree with you, but that isn't the issue at hand. Section 7 of the charter clearly states that "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice," not that "everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person so long as their skirt reaches the ends of their fingertips." Comments like officer in Toronto, or the judge in Winnipeg made show either a complete lack of respect for women or complete lack of understanding of the fundamental legal principles behind our society. Neither are good and both are completely worthy of the outrage their receiving. I also think it's a little short sighted to call this the lynch pin of the feminist movement. Feminism has existed for hundreds of years and the safety of women has always been an issue. It seems like you're getting hung up on the current events aspect and missing the larger historical theme of women being victimized and then blamed for their own victimization. Mini-skirts might be in poor taste, but not so much as treating them as an open invitation for a quickie.

[ZACH ATTACK]

Its like when that young lady tried to make an issue of not being allowed to board a sky train in Vancouver for her "fuck yoga" pin about free speech. People who skimmed that headline were outraged he had no right and what not and he didn't. What you had to actually read was that the only reason transit police were talking to her in the first place was that she didn't have a $2.50 train ticket.

Really dude? You think that putting the blam on rape victims because of how they dressed is the same as some lady who didn't want to pay her sky train ticket. This has to be a joke.

[Human-Demise]

the world sucks, and i like everyone in it.



except you guys

[keep_it_real]

i didnt see you guys at slut walk.

[patvoytko]

yo whats up, my names pat. i play guitar in agitator.

i had a friend link me to this thread and there's a few things i'd like to clear up...

first off, let me say that its not my place to interpret martys lyrics for you; ultimately you can think and say what you want about them. im not here to try and change anyones minds about our band.

the song 'diseased' was written about a specific situation and a specific person and in no way a statement about the entire female gender. obviously we dont wish 'date rape' upon anyone or anything retarded.

if 'enter vice lords' wasnt your bag, our new record "walls closing in" will be out on six feet under records by the end of the month - maybe you'll like the lyrics on that one

look forward to seeing some of you at sound & fury

pat/agitator

However, I have lines and rape is one of them. Even wishing it on one person, or telling one woman that she brought it on herself (which is how I took those lyrics) is pretty disgusting to me. People do stupid things, and quite often deal with consequences that are wholly their fault. Rape is not a consequence. Rape is a violent, soul crushing act, and I don't really care if a girl was drinking; if she (or he, rape does happen to men too) gets roofied the only person responsible is the rapist.

just for clarification the lines in the song dealing with date rape are suppose to be a forewarning to the possible repercussions of said persons irresponsible/dangerous lifestyle. "you'll lose your ability to think.." is suppose to be saying this could possibly happen to you. kind of like if you play with fire you might get burned type of deal.

i appreciate the rational discussion.

pat/agitator

[tylerp]

4. Diseased
Just because you’re drinking doesn’t mean that it’s ok But with the shit that you call morals I’m sure you’ll do it anyway

This story opens with a character who not only drinks but has poor morals.

So you’ll flirt with all the guys and they’ll feed you bullshit lies

The presumed woman (presumed because there is no gender mentioned or given, so this easily COULD be a man) is into going out and flirting with lots of men.

None of them give a shit about you You’re just another dumb slut for them to fuck But you don’t care you’ll keep trying your luck

This person is interested in trying their luck with as many men as possible, possibly knowing that they are not interested in a real human connection.

Drop your self-respect and open your legs Give it up to any man who begs

The person is really into sexual encounters, which the band deems to be lacking in self-respect - something I disagree with, but it's just an opinion.

You’ll lose your ability to think When someone slips a pill in your drink Sit back and let it transpire Give in to every desire I

This seems to be the big one everyone is talking about. The inevitability of rape, a common and wrong misconception that rape avoidance is more important than preventing the rapists from doing what they do. This is basically saying the person is going to get raped with his or her sexually forward attitude. This is the one line in the song that really bugs me. It's attitudes like this that perpetuate the "sluts have it coming" idea.

f you don’t have a disease, you’ll get one soon It can happen to you, you aren’t immune Next time I hope the condom fucking breaks Just one small rip is all it takes Wake up the next morning with a head full of shame I hope you know you only have yourself to blame

This dismisses the sexually outward lifestyle, something I disagree with but it's a valid alternate perspective saying that being sexually active with a lot of partners results in shame.

[Hollow]

yo whats up, my names pat. i play guitar in agitator.

i had a friend link me to this thread and there's a few things i'd like to clear up...

first off, let me say that its not my place to interpret martys lyrics for you; ultimately you can think and say what you want about them. im not here to try and change anyones minds about our band.

the song 'diseased' was written about a specific situation and a specific person and in no way a statement about the entire female gender. obviously we dont wish 'date rape' upon anyone or anything retarded.

if 'enter vice lords' wasnt your bag, our new record "walls closing in" will be out on six feet under records by the end of the month - maybe you'll like the lyrics on that one

look forward to seeing some of you at sound & fury

pat/agitator

However, I have lines and rape is one of them. Even wishing it on one person, or telling one woman that she brought it on herself (which is how I took those lyrics) is pretty disgusting to me. People do stupid things, and quite often deal with consequences that are wholly their fault. Rape is not a consequence. Rape is a violent, soul crushing act, and I don't really care if a girl was drinking; if she (or he, rape does happen to men too) gets roofied the only person responsible is the rapist.

just for clarification the lines in the song dealing with date rape are suppose to be a forewarning to the possible repercussions of said persons irresponsible/dangerous lifestyle. "you'll lose your ability to think.." is suppose to be saying this could possibly happen to you. kind of like if you play with fire you might get burned type of deal.

i appreciate the rational discussion.

pat/agitator

Oh, I totally understand that. I just think it's wrong. Let me try it this way: lets say you own a car and a bike. You have the choice to use either mode of transportation, but today you decide to ride your bike. Now, there are certainly risks you're taking by riding a bike. You could be hit by a driver that wasn't paying attention, you could hit a rock and fly over the handle bars, your front wheel could crumple and send you over the handlebars, etc. So, you go out with those risks in mind, and avoid them to your best ability. But halfway to your destination, a driver who hates cyclists speeds up and purposefully hits you, then steals your wallet. Now, is it your fault that you were run down by this driver? Using the logic ascribed in the song, yes it is. You decided to ride your bike, you knew the risks going into it, etc. etc. etc. I happen to think that the driver is at fault. You riding a bike is not asking to be hit by a car. A girl that dresses "slutty" and drinks is not asking to be raped.

If you wrote a song about a girl that goes out drinking, drinks too much, throws up all over her best friends couch and then loses that friend, then you would have a song about the consequences you run by drinking too much. But as I stated before, rape isn't a consequence. Men who take advantage of a woman while drunk are doing just that; taking advantage.

Basically, it's not the responsibility of the woman to not be raped, it's the responsibility of men to know not to rape someone.

And no thanks necessary on the subject of rational discussion. I'm more than happy to talk to someone about views I disagree with. Screaming at each other won't help anything, and you've shown a lot of respect to me and the rest of our community. It's nothing at all to return the favour.

[keith.]

agitator riffs out the madness. ive been into that band all year, its just 1 song, thats been twisted and singled out and everyone has gone all B9 on it. yea its a stupid song, get over it, they have other better songs that are crushing. hardcore having offensive or not very thought out lyrics shouldnt be a shocker.

pat, looking forward to the new 7" thanks for coming onto this little blip on the radar of a messageboard and putting out your views. respect.

[Hollow]

agitator riffs out the madness. ive been into that band all year, its just 1 song, thats been twisted and singled out and everyone has gone all B9 on it. yea its a stupid song, get over it, they have other better songs that are crushing. hardcore having offensive or not very thought out lyrics shouldnt be a shocker.

pat, looking forward to the new 7" thanks for coming onto this little blip on the radar of a messageboard and putting out your views. respect.

Nope, not into that line of thinking. We'll discuss that face to face, though. This isn't the place.

Edit: I should probably clarify that I don't care if you like Agitator, I just have a problem with the "who cares" attitude. Listen to the band all you want.

[keith.]

that was the daddest thing ive ever heard you say

[Hollow]

that was the daddest thing ive ever heard you say

Well, I am fucking your Mom.

[keith.]