How Important Is Lyrical Content 4 U?

[dalamar501]

lyrics are cool.

music is cool.

[amanda]

i didnt read anything you guys said,
but i usually dont care about lyrics, until i hear something weird one day while listening to a song, look up the lyrics and realise its amazing.
i like it when bands sound all unassuming and normal, but then you realize they're singing about autoerotic asphyxiation. also why isnt there a band called that.

[Hollow]

Personally, I happen to agree with Jordan on this. To me at least, lyrics are the most important part of a song. It's why I just can't get into some bands everyone loves (Judge, for example) because I just can't agree/get into the lyrics.

Has there ever been any bands you were stoked on in first hearing but once you read their lyrics you lost interest in listening to them?

Yeah, I think Earthcrisis is the example that pops into my mind immediately. To this day I will mosh my face off to Firestorm, but I can't really listen to/support that band after reading quite a bit of their lyrics. I can't remember the song name (because I am terrible at remembering names, Zach knows, he'll post it for me...right?) but they wrote a song straight up calling for women who had abortions to be attacked.

Also, I refused to listen to Bad Brains until recently, when HR came out and apologized for writing those homophobic lyrics. Which is good, because Bad Brains rule.

I just want to clarify that these are all personal choices I made, and I don't want anyone to think that I'm judging them because they love Earthcrisis or something. I PERSONALLY decided to stop listening to them. What you listen to and who you support are your business.

Also, Puff, OLC was a joke to Mean Steve and John Lockjaw. Chubby was super serious about it. I remember chatting with JLJ in San Diego years ago, and while he didn't come straight out and say it, I got the impression that's why they broke up. Legitimately hilarious shit.


ALSO, I just remembered that Anal Cunt is one of my favorite bands, so you should SERIOUSLY not take anything I say about lyrical content too seriously. It does kind of end up being case by case with me, and I take context into account at all times.

[New West Crew]

Personally, I happen to agree with Jordan on this. To me at least, lyrics are the most important part of a song. It's why I just can't get into some bands everyone loves (Judge, for example) because I just can't agree/get into the lyrics.

Has there ever been any bands you were stoked on in first hearing but once you read their lyrics you lost interest in listening to them?

Yeah, I think Earthcrisis is the example that pops into my mind immediately. To this day I will mosh my face off to Firestorm, but I can't really listen to/support that band after reading quite a bit of their lyrics. I can't remember the song name (because I am terrible at remembering names, Zach knows, he'll post it for me...right?) but they wrote a song straight up calling for women who had abortions to be attacked.

Also, I refused to listen to Bad Brains until recently, when HR came out and apologized for writing those homophobic lyrics. Which is good, because Bad Brains rule.

I just want to clarify that these are all personal choices I made, and I don't want anyone to think that I'm judging them because they love Earthcrisis or something. I PERSONALLY decided to stop listening to them. What you listen to and who you support are your business.

Also, Puff, OLC was a joke to Mean Steve and John Lockjaw. Chubby was super serious about it. I remember chatting with JLJ in San Diego years ago, and while he didn't come straight out and say it, I got the impression that's why they broke up. Legitimately hilarious shit.


ALSO, I just remembered that Anal Cunt is one of my favorite bands, so you should SERIOUSLY not take anything I say about lyrical content too seriously. It does kind of end up being case by case with me, and I take context into account at all times.

I'm pretty sure that there isn't an Earth Crisis song calling for women who had abortions to be attacked. The only EC song I can think of off the top of my head where abortions enter into play that that song on All Out War with the line "For the cow, for the cat, for the fetus, for that rat,for the innocent victims we will attack". I never once interpreted this line as condoning the assault of women, and I've never heard anyone else interpret it as that either. Also It's important to put that into context. They were all like 17 or 18 when they recorded that and when you're that age and into punk rock/hardcore you approach things with a righteous fury that is actually one of the best things about punk. That being said, when you're that age you're also an idiot who views things as black and white with no grey area. When I saw Earth Crisis in Seattle last year, Karl Buechner didn't sing the fetus line when they played that song. Probably because he realized that is was a dumb lyric.

[PaulyHC]

i can go either way. are the important to me? yes and no - as a writer I find word play and how people weave lines together fascinating.

do i have to believe in what an artist is singing about to enjoy their band? no - i listen to quite a few straight edge bands, and anyone that knows me, knows that I do not live a sXe lifestyle.

the music is what matters, like Zach said, a boring arrangement is far more offensive than some idiotic lyrics.

[Rude Boy Puff]

"You're a demon with blood on your hands, your death
will bring their freedom. I can't stand by and let the innocent die.
By opressing innocent life you've lost your rights so
now your end is justified. Don't think that you've been given a choice.
Your actions serve as your voice. Your selfishness
destroys the earth, so you've left us with no other choice.
For the fetus, for the cat, for the cow, for the rat.
For innocent victims we will attack, we will attack, we will attack."

Being against abortion seems natural for a group who took on veganism in the interest of protecting life.

Im not intending to spark an abortion debate I believe fully in abortions for some and miniature american flags for others

[Rude Boy Puff]

The all out war 7" has a write up explaining those lyrics but I dont have that record with me in victoria
best song on the record

[Hollow]

Personally, I happen to agree with Jordan on this. To me at least, lyrics are the most important part of a song. It's why I just can't get into some bands everyone loves (Judge, for example) because I just can't agree/get into the lyrics.

Has there ever been any bands you were stoked on in first hearing but once you read their lyrics you lost interest in listening to them?

Yeah, I think Earthcrisis is the example that pops into my mind immediately. To this day I will mosh my face off to Firestorm, but I can't really listen to/support that band after reading quite a bit of their lyrics. I can't remember the song name (because I am terrible at remembering names, Zach knows, he'll post it for me...right?) but they wrote a song straight up calling for women who had abortions to be attacked.

Also, I refused to listen to Bad Brains until recently, when HR came out and apologized for writing those homophobic lyrics. Which is good, because Bad Brains rule.

I just want to clarify that these are all personal choices I made, and I don't want anyone to think that I'm judging them because they love Earthcrisis or something. I PERSONALLY decided to stop listening to them. What you listen to and who you support are your business.

Also, Puff, OLC was a joke to Mean Steve and John Lockjaw. Chubby was super serious about it. I remember chatting with JLJ in San Diego years ago, and while he didn't come straight out and say it, I got the impression that's why they broke up. Legitimately hilarious shit.


ALSO, I just remembered that Anal Cunt is one of my favorite bands, so you should SERIOUSLY not take anything I say about lyrical content too seriously. It does kind of end up being case by case with me, and I take context into account at all times.

I'm pretty sure that there isn't an Earth Crisis song calling for women who had abortions to be attacked. The only EC song I can think of off the top of my head where abortions enter into play that that song on All Out War with the line "For the cow, for the cat, for the fetus, for that rat,for the innocent victims we will attack". I never once interpreted this line as condoning the assault of women, and I've never heard anyone else interpret it as that either. Also It's important to put that into context. They were all like 17 or 18 when they recorded that and when you're that age and into punk rock/hardcore you approach things with a righteous fury that is actually one of the best things about punk. That being said, when you're that age you're also an idiot who views things as black and white with no grey area. When I saw Earth Crisis in Seattle last year, Karl Buechner didn't sing the fetus line when they played that song. Probably because he realized that is was a dumb lyric.

That's fair, and to a point I agree with you. I'm still not that keen on the band, and am a little leary of their politics, but that again is a personal line. While I agree that they shouldn't be held accountable for things they wrote when they were young, I kind of expect them to either say "No, we don't agree with this anymore and we don't support these conceptes anymore" OR "Yes, this is what we believe, and we do support it". I just don't feel comfortable supporting a band when their politics are that ambiguous.

Again, please no offense meant to super huge Earthcrisis fans, just putting my opinion out there. Please let me know if you disagree.


EDIT: just read the lyrics that Pat posted, and yeah those are the ones. I love that 7", but I just feel really really REALLY uncomfortable with those lyrics. I'm vegan and all, but that just sounds like it's too close to "Beat the shit out of women if they have an abortion." Again, yeah I know they were young, but I feel like I'm allowed to feel uncomfortable about those lyrics, and not support the band because of them.

[Hollow]

The all out war 7" has a write up explaining those lyrics but I dont have that record with me in victoria
best song on the record

Hey, we have that 7" and the Firestorm 7" on red LP at Black Raven. Come get it and hang the fuck out.

[New West Crew]

Personally, I happen to agree with Jordan on this. To me at least, lyrics are the most important part of a song. It's why I just can't get into some bands everyone loves (Judge, for example) because I just can't agree/get into the lyrics.

Has there ever been any bands you were stoked on in first hearing but once you read their lyrics you lost interest in listening to them?

Yeah, I think Earthcrisis is the example that pops into my mind immediately. To this day I will mosh my face off to Firestorm, but I can't really listen to/support that band after reading quite a bit of their lyrics. I can't remember the song name (because I am terrible at remembering names, Zach knows, he'll post it for me...right?) but they wrote a song straight up calling for women who had abortions to be attacked.

Also, I refused to listen to Bad Brains until recently, when HR came out and apologized for writing those homophobic lyrics. Which is good, because Bad Brains rule.

I just want to clarify that these are all personal choices I made, and I don't want anyone to think that I'm judging them because they love Earthcrisis or something. I PERSONALLY decided to stop listening to them. What you listen to and who you support are your business.

Also, Puff, OLC was a joke to Mean Steve and John Lockjaw. Chubby was super serious about it. I remember chatting with JLJ in San Diego years ago, and while he didn't come straight out and say it, I got the impression that's why they broke up. Legitimately hilarious shit.


ALSO, I just remembered that Anal Cunt is one of my favorite bands, so you should SERIOUSLY not take anything I say about lyrical content too seriously. It does kind of end up being case by case with me, and I take context into account at all times.

I'm pretty sure that there isn't an Earth Crisis song calling for women who had abortions to be attacked. The only EC song I can think of off the top of my head where abortions enter into play that that song on All Out War with the line "For the cow, for the cat, for the fetus, for that rat,for the innocent victims we will attack". I never once interpreted this line as condoning the assault of women, and I've never heard anyone else interpret it as that either. Also It's important to put that into context. They were all like 17 or 18 when they recorded that and when you're that age and into punk rock/hardcore you approach things with a righteous fury that is actually one of the best things about punk. That being said, when you're that age you're also an idiot who views things as black and white with no grey area. When I saw Earth Crisis in Seattle last year, Karl Buechner didn't sing the fetus line when they played that song. Probably because he realized that is was a dumb lyric.

That's fair, and to a point I agree with you. I'm still not that keen on the band, and am a little leary of their politics, but that again is a personal line. While I agree that they shouldn't be held accountable for things they wrote when they were young, I kind of expect them to either say "No, we don't agree with this anymore and we don't support these conceptes anymore" OR "Yes, this is what we believe, and we do support it". I just don't feel comfortable supporting a band when their politics are that ambiguous.

Again, please no offense meant to super huge Earthcrisis fans, just putting my opinion out there. Please let me know if you disagree.


EDIT: just read the lyrics that Pat posted, and yeah those are the ones. I love that 7", but I just feel really really REALLY uncomfortable with those lyrics. I'm vegan and all, but that just sounds like it's too close to "Beat the shit out of women if they have an abortion." Again, yeah I know they were young, but I feel like I'm allowed to feel uncomfortable about those lyrics, and not support the band because of them.

The explanation in the liner notes talks about the best way to prevent abortion being a more responible and effective Sexual Eduacation program in schools. I always felt like those lyrics were intended for those who kill/harm animals and those who put women in a position where abortions are needed due to ignorance. I'm 100% pro choice, but I honestly think you're misinterpreting the lyrics. Like I said, I never once thought of them that way.

[Hollow]

The explanation in the liner notes talks about the best way to prevent abortion being a more responible and effective Sexual Eduacation program in schools. I always felt like those lyrics were intended for those who kill/harm animals and those who put women in a position where abortions are needed due to ignorance. I'm 100% pro choice, but I honestly think you're misinterpreting the lyrics. Like I said, I never once thought of them that way.

That's chill, and I understand where your coming from, but what I see it as is not so much me misinterpreting it, as interpreting it differently. While I appreciate that Karl wrote what he wrote in the insert, that song still makes me uncomfortable, and I don't particulalry feel comfortable supporting the band because of it. Again, I'm not passing judgement, just simply stating my personal opinion.

[ZACH ATTACK]

[quote="Hollow']
Also, I refused to listen to Bad Brains until recently, when HR came out and apologized for writing those homophobic lyrics. Which is good, because Bad Brains rule.
[/quote]
HR didn't say anything. He's probably to crazy to make coherent statements. In 2007 Darryl Jennifer was asked about it in an interview and he pretty much said that it was stupid for people to assume that they hold the exact same views that they did 25 years years ago and that he doesn't subscribe to those beliefs anymore.

So the point being here, when we first were discovering Rastafari – like any young men or any young women getting into anything – you’re overzealous. Back in 1988, I might have been saying, “Fire burn…” I’m 25 years old! You’ve got to understand that I’m a young man growing, getting into something. Now I’m 46 years old and I’ve learned that that’s ignorant. I’ve learned through the years that we’re all God’s children, regardless of your race, creed, color, sexuality, any of that.

Dr. Know has also said that Don't Blow Bubbles wasn't supposed to be a song about hating on gays but a sort of angry warning about HIV/AIDS that was written in a time when nobody really knew anything about it and it was still largley considered to associated with homosexuality.

"We wrote that song as kind of an angry warning to homosexuals. We didn't really mean to insult them, but a lot of people we knew seemed to be living with their eyes closed."

This issue with the Bad Brains kind of remindes me of Minor Threat's Guilty Of Being White. Except Ian McKay has said several times over that it was boneheaded 18 year old thing to do, but he wont appologize for anything he wrote in Minor Threat or any other band and that seems to be okay with everybody where as Bad Brains make simmilar statements and a lot of people still keep calling them homophobes and demanding appologies. So take that for what you will, an obviously unwell man not really saying much, and two perfectly stable dudes saying "We were wrong about certain things and certain things got taken the wrong way."

[xchadx]

.

[Hollow]

Seems straight up strange to me to interpret the "for the fetus" lyrics as having anything to do with attacking women. Granted, that lyrics is slightly "sketchy", but I personally think that their explanation that is included with the record clears the song from being misinterpreted too much. Do I think that Karl could have done a better job at writing lyrics that were slightly more concise in explaining what they were trying to get across? Yes. However, (as Danny said) they were all young, angry kids when that record came out. And really, lets put it all in context for the time period they came from: that record came out when Hardline was the "big thing" for people in that scene. Most kids involved in the Vegan Straight Edge scene at the time had two key bands that they were super stoked on/emmulating: Raid and Vegan Reich (and I guess the other bands, like Statement, that were coming out on Hardline Records at the time). Not the greatest two bands to look up in terms of lyrical content/tolerance. Hahaha. Also, in regards to the other bands that were around in that time..that song is probably one of the least "sketchy" lyrically. Look at a band like Abnegation, who wrote an absolutely moronic song about the fact that "THE FETUS IS A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!"...and called their record "Extinguish The Sickness". I take way more offense to that.. not necessarily because I care if they believe that the fetus is, indeed, a life....but because I think their attempt at writing about the topic was really poorly executed. I could rant on and on about how awfully executed that song is..but whatever, I'm still down with Abnegation..because I like bad, 90s vegan mosh. Hahaha.

Appologies for the long, winded EC rant that didn't really go anywhere...I can't help it. I love the band way too much.

PS: It was refreshing to not have someone write a typical "beef" with EC over the lyrics of Firestorm. I'm tired of battling about that song with crybabies.
PPS: MORALITY DICTATES...

EVERYTHING I AM ABOUT TO WRITE IS A GODDAMN PERSONAL OPINION.

I won't go too far into this, because I know how much this band means to you dude, but as far as intelligent, politically charged hardcore goes, Downcast, Los Crudos, Spitboy, Trial, and a host of others were much, much better than EarthCrisis. EC were quasi-okay. They put out two excellent 7" and then a host of depressingly mediocre records that were hailed as amazing simply because they latched onto a political movement that was incredibly popular at the time. I'm far more interested and in line with Greg Bennick when he talks about the plight of Native groups, or when Martin Sorrendeguy discusses his feelings of isolation within hardcore as a Hispanic male, or the discussions that Spitboy started by being as defiantly feminist without ever aligning themselves with the Riot Grrl movement.

I've been Vegan for longer than...well I think every person who posts on this board (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and I can say with complete sincerity that animal rights are but a single aspect of life, and to latch onto that single aspect as the whole of your personal political life is somewhat ridiculous.

I have, quite literally, no respect for EC, Vegan Reich, or any of the other hardline Vegan SXE bands. They did nothing, changed nothing, and continue to do and change nothing. There are a host of bands, outside of the hardline movement, who are exactly the same, and I don't respect them either, so please don't take this as a personal affront. I honestly don't mind that you love them, I'm simply giving my opinion on the matter.

OH, and the lyrics to FIrestorm are ridiculous and written by a 19 year old football player who found a copy of "The Monkey Wrench Gang". I FUCKING SAID IT.

Hardline rant aside, I'm stoked that you're as interested in animal rights and politics as you seem to be. You come across (the few times I've spoken to you) as incredibly intelligent and thoughtful. I would really love it if you came out to the island on the 19th. It would fun to discuss this further, face to face.

EDIT: ONCE AGAIN THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. NONE OF THIS WAS MEANT AS AN ATTACK ON ANYONE WHO LIKE EC. FUCK.

[Andrew]

[quote="Hollow']
Also, I refused to listen to Bad Brains until recently, when HR came out and apologized for writing those homophobic lyrics. Which is good, because Bad Brains rule.

HR didn't say anything. He's probably to crazy to make coherent statements. In 2007 Darryl Jennifer was asked about it in an interview and he pretty much said that it was stupid for people to assume that they hold the exact same views that they did 25 years years ago and that he doesn't subscribe to those beliefs anymore.

So the point being here, when we first were discovering Rastafari – like any young men or any young women getting into anything – you’re overzealous. Back in 1988, I might have been saying, “Fire burn…” I’m 25 years old! You’ve got to understand that I’m a young man growing, getting into something. Now I’m 46 years old and I’ve learned that that’s ignorant. I’ve learned through the years that we’re all God’s children, regardless of your race, creed, color, sexuality, any of that.

Dr. Know has also said that Don't Blow Bubbles wasn't supposed to be a song about hating on gays but a sort of angry warning about HIV/AIDS that was written in a time when nobody really knew anything about it and it was still largley considered to associated with homosexuality.

"We wrote that song as kind of an angry warning to homosexuals. We didn't really mean to insult them, but a lot of people we knew seemed to be living with their eyes closed."

This issue with the Bad Brains kind of remindes me of Minor Threat's Guilty Of Being White. Except Ian McKay has said several times over that it was boneheaded 18 year old thing to do, but he wont appologize for anything he wrote in Minor Threat or any other band and that seems to be okay with everybody where as Bad Brains make simmilar statements and a lot of people still keep calling them homophobes and demanding appologies. So take that for what you will, an obviously unwell man not really saying much, and two perfectly stable dudes saying "We were wrong about certain things and certain things got taken the wrong way."[/quote][/quote]

Thanks for this Zach. I've written the same thing/duked it out on another board over the Bad Brains. I love Bad Brains.

[xchadx]

.

[Hollow]

You should seriously give that Spitboy side of the Los Crudos split a second chance. Holy shit, solid feminist hardcore ACTUALLY PERFORMED BY WOMEN!! OOOOH.

I have the Downcast S/T LP, first pressing. Be jealous.

I would disagree that Trial did nothing. And I have to actually step back and admit that I'm one of those old guys who got into animal rights because of EC. Fuck, I had completely forgotten about that. Ugh.

Either way, come party on the 19th. We'll bro down and I'll explain how the 90's weren't nearly as good as you think they were (really).

[ZACH ATTACK]

I've said it a thousand times, but the 90's were pretty much an open E breakdown with a dude yelling about feminism in between lectures. And in the same way I don't go political discussion groups to see hardcore bands.....

[xchadx]

.

[Hollow]

You should seriously give that Spitboy side of the Los Crudos split a second chance. Holy shit, solid feminist hardcore ACTUALLY PERFORMED BY WOMEN!! OOOOH.

I have the Downcast S/T LP, first pressing. Be jealous.

I would disagree that Trial did nothing. And I have to actually step back and admit that I'm one of those old guys who got into animal rights because of EC. Fuck, I had completely forgotten about that. Ugh.

Either way, come party on the 19th. We'll bro down and I'll explain how the 90's weren't nearly as good as you think they were (really).

I always thought that band would appeal to me as I was super into a ton of female fronted anarcho bands when I was younger...but it just doesn't do much for me. I'll spin it again though anyway haha.

I'm quite sure I do too, but maybe I'm wrong. Dollar bin GOLD. There's a copy kicking at Scratch Records in the used section, noone ever buys it.

I'm obviously exaggerating hahaha, Trial are one of the most important bands I ever got into in my life. I'm just trying to establish the thought that most hardcore bands will "achieve" very little in terms of the big scheme of things...but still can be important to certain individuals/on smaller levels. They successfully got me away from remaining an ignorant anarcho punk kid with largely bad taste. Oh man, I think today calls for some hard jamming of Are These Our Lives in my recently purchased TRIAL SOCCER JERSEY.

LOLOLOL. Oh believe me, anyone older than me shits on me endlessly with this knowledge (and I totally understand). I don't even think the 90s scene was that groundbreaking or incredible..just spawned some of my favourite hardcore bands. If I don't come out on the 19th, I'm just going to come for a visit for something to do on a weekend sometime soon. I want to scope this elusive Black Raven place I hear so much about and buy Bolt Thrower LPs (assuming there are still some there).

More related to the initial topic of this thread: I started writing up a huge response about how important quality lyrics are to me, blah blah blah...but then I remembered all of the black metal I have been jamming the past few months, and GOD DAMN did some of those bands ever have awful lyrical content. LOL.

I run Black Raven Records on Sundays, that's the best time to come bro down for sure.

Do not ever wear that soccer jersey to Victoria, as you will wake up the next day with it missing, and me wearing one that mysteriously resembles it.

I love 90's hardcore, like the scene. There was just no discourse or concepts. Much like the 99-04 scene kinda blew because everyone was espousing thinly veiled conservative politics and yelling at/beating the shit out of anyone who disagreed, the early 90's to about 97/98 did the same thing, only on the left side of things.

Black Metal rules.