Dangers show March 18th

[KYLESTYLE]

Stupid how?

He said he doesn't respect women who choose to be house wives because they should be out doing something with their lives, and that he respects people who choose to commit suicide because they know they don't deserve their life and they're proactive about it.

When he went on about how "human beings are all garbage blah blah blah" I didn't clap and cheer along with the few that did in the crowd. That kind of thinking is very immature. It's kind of contradictory though for him to say that considering I think he said he was an elementary school teacher?

I think you missed the point of what he said. Paraphrase: 'Humans are self destructive and harmful etc etc and i get to live that passion when i play my songs, but outside of that, i am an overall friendly person who tries his best to better other peoples' lives (eg love my nieces, friends and teach kids).'

I wouldn't say that's an immature thought process, in fact I'd say it's fairly sophisticated. It sounds like he's given nihilism a good go. To label that immature is using a pejorative word to describe something you don't agree with. I think it's perfectly healthy to disagree with this idea, but to label it "immature" seems to passively force your ideals on others. Maybe that's what he was doing, but it sounded pretty genuine, and more of a "hey, life seems pointless but I'm doing my best to make others happy."

THINK LIKE ME, OR ELSE.

[ian]

i dont know about al but i think we can all get behind bubba telling tambo not to dance because he was in the way of his pictures. i like it when a show ruins a photoshoot.

[Tambro]

I also think there's a big difference between stating your personal opinion and feelings as opposed to stating that others should feel that way. I heard about the statement of not respecting house wives a few days ago and have been thinking about it, and honestly think it falls under this category. You can't choose what you respect and what you don't, really, it's a feeling, and people don't get to choose their feelings, at least in my opinion. If he wrote a song about how he doesn't respect house wives it's not saying "hey, go tell your mom she's worthless" it's more of an expression of personal feelings (which is generally what music is).

Does this mean you have to agree with it? Of course not, I think I'm trying to say quite the opposite. I don't necessarily agree with every one of Dangers' songs but there are certainly a lot that hit home with me, and even the ones that I don't agree with, I respect someone who puts out their feelings and outlooks, even if they're in the minority or "uncool".

Also, up the punx.

[KYLESTYLE]

Tambo, I agree with this. I respect when a person/group has different views than I do, and i respect their right to have them (especially when there is critical thought behind them). Also, there is a difference between saying "fuck housewives", and saying "fuck housewives, let's start a purge", OR "suicide is morally acceptable," and saying, "go kill yourself". Yeah, I may not agree with that, but also, as an artist and musician i think the vocalist, especially, has his/her stage for conveying those ideas. I may not always agree with what Al says, but i can get behind it a hell of a lot more than straight edge rants and stereotypical hardcore banter, and I if I don't agree with it, I at least can see where he's coming from or get a chuckle out of it.

Andrew, I also agree that an all ages show is probably not the best place to convey certain feelings. I'm sure some people could have taken that the wrong way since there was no discourse involved.

Also, hardcore shows ARE photo-shoots, so keep your 'slam dancing' at the back of the room for god's sake!

[grind/bro]

Stupid how?

He said he doesn't respect women who choose to be house wives because they should be out doing something with their lives, and that he respects people who choose to commit suicide because they know they don't deserve their life and they're proactive about it.

When he went on about how "human beings are all garbage blah blah blah" I didn't clap and cheer along with the few that did in the crowd. That kind of thinking is very immature. It's kind of contradictory though for him to say that considering I think he said he was an elementary school teacher?

I think you missed the point of what he said. Paraphrase: 'Humans are self destructive and harmful etc etc and i get to live that passion when i play my songs, but outside of that, i am an overall friendly person who tries his best to better other peoples' lives (eg love my nieces, friends and teach kids).'

I wouldn't say that's an immature thought process, in fact I'd say it's fairly sophisticated. It sounds like he's given nihilism a good go. To label that immature is using a pejorative word to describe something you don't agree with. I think it's perfectly healthy to disagree with this idea, but to label it "immature" seems to passively force your ideals on others. Maybe that's what he was doing, but it sounded pretty genuine, and more of a "hey, life seems pointless but I'm doing my best to make others happy."

THINK LIKE ME, OR ELSE.

It is immature. Saying that just because your culture is fucking up the planet, that means at base we are all greedy little rapists, is pretty short sighted. Yeah he is making a difference, that's good. But just because someone punched him in the stomach in high school for being different doesn't mean we're all "bad".

[KYLESTYLE]

Stupid how?

He said he doesn't respect women who choose to be house wives because they should be out doing something with their lives, and that he respects people who choose to commit suicide because they know they don't deserve their life and they're proactive about it.

When he went on about how "human beings are all garbage blah blah blah" I didn't clap and cheer along with the few that did in the crowd. That kind of thinking is very immature. It's kind of contradictory though for him to say that considering I think he said he was an elementary school teacher?

I think you missed the point of what he said. Paraphrase: 'Humans are self destructive and harmful etc etc and i get to live that passion when i play my songs, but outside of that, i am an overall friendly person who tries his best to better other peoples' lives (eg love my nieces, friends and teach kids).'

I wouldn't say that's an immature thought process, in fact I'd say it's fairly sophisticated. It sounds like he's given nihilism a good go. To label that immature is using a pejorative word to describe something you don't agree with. I think it's perfectly healthy to disagree with this idea, but to label it "immature" seems to passively force your ideals on others. Maybe that's what he was doing, but it sounded pretty genuine, and more of a "hey, life seems pointless but I'm doing my best to make others happy."

THINK LIKE ME, OR ELSE.

It is immature. Saying that just because your culture is fucking up the planet, that means at base we are all greedy little rapists, is pretty short sighted. Yeah he is making a difference, that's good. But just because someone punched him in the stomach in high school for being different doesn't mean we're all "bad".

honestly you're breaking it down in an overly simplistic way; I'd call that immature.

[Andrew]

honestly you're breaking it down in an overly simplistic way; I'd call that immature.

But isn't Al also breaking down ideas like suicide and being a home maker in an overly simplistic way?

[Andrew]

I also think there's a big difference between stating your personal opinion and feelings as opposed to stating that others should feel that way. I heard about the statement of not respecting house wives a few days ago and have been thinking about it, and honestly think it falls under this category. You can't choose what you respect and what you don't, really, it's a feeling, and people don't get to choose their feelings, at least in my opinion. If he wrote a song about how he doesn't respect house wives it's not saying "hey, go tell your mom she's worthless" it's more of an expression of personal feelings (which is generally what music is).

Does this mean you have to agree with it? Of course not, I think I'm trying to say quite the opposite. I don't necessarily agree with every one of Dangers' songs but there are certainly a lot that hit home with me, and even the ones that I don't agree with, I respect someone who puts out their feelings and outlooks, even if they're in the minority or "uncool".

Also, up the punx.

My problem with the idea that it's a feeling and he can't help it is that the world is full of racists and homophobes who just feel being gay is wrong or minorities are lazy. I'm not saying Al is on par with being a racist or homophobe, just that the world is full of what I think are stupid or wrong ideas that people can't help how they feel on, when in fact many of those feelings are the conditioned responses to their family/peer/media/church influence from such an early age they know no other way. I don't think Al just feels being a homemaker is not a valuable choice, instead I think he feels that way based on his education and life experience allowing him to form a certain opinion that he feels is correct. And that I, based on similar criteria, think is incorrect.

Al (like many people in hardcore and punk) is a smart, outspoken guy with a lot of good to say. But in my opinion he also has some flawed views that I'm not down with.

A nice side effect of this chat is I'm reminded how many smart, thinking and well spoken people participate here. Stoked on VIHC peeps.

[Rude Boy Puff]

The hole a suicide will leave in the people left behind makes its encouragement as powerful as faggot, nigger, or any other piece of like speech you can casually throw around. Only in this day and age its alot more likely to cut someone deep and seriously complaining about house wives is really something Id expect from an ivy league education with a room of dolts there to clap along to every word.

I need to let it go.
No respect for shock artists.

[Rude Boy Puff]

Good thing Wayne Treacy wasnt at the show.

[KYLESTYLE]

really something Id expect from an ivy league education with a room of dolts there to clap along to every word.

I need to let it go.
No respect for shock artists.

That's fair. I guess as a non-ivy league, university participant, I tend to be the in-step sheep to clap along. Well, that's actually not true, I just mean I guess I do/did go to university, and i do agree with quite a few things he says. I'm a product of my environment.

Also, I can't say I get behind the Vancouver speech that Andrew talked about, though ideally I do, just not in that venue, but I did get behind his speech about depression and anguish of being a human being, from the cradle to the grave, but that one must try, if only for the sake of others, to make something better. That's my mindset, so I clapped, not that Nick or anyone else has to agree, because if everyone did, I can't say we'd be as interesting. I'm not saying I agree with everything he says, and yeah, maybe he is attempting shock and awe, but I like that he says it and it's a bit out of the mold.

I agree with pretty much everything you guys are saying, and it's not like I even know this guy or celebrate him, I just appreciate him as an artist and enjoy the times i get to see him live, but I know a lot of people aren't in that boat, which is totally respectable.

Also, I think suicide is morally permissible on certain grounds, but that's a whole other debate without an end.

[Andrew]

The hole a suicide will leave in the people left behind makes its encouragement as powerful as faggot, nigger, or any other piece of like speech you can casually throw around.

Well said, I hope this is not something you know from personal experience.

[Hollow]

The hole a suicide will leave in the people left behind makes its encouragement as powerful as faggot, nigger, or any other piece of like speech you can casually throw around.

Well said, I hope this is not something you know from personal experience.

Can't speak for Pat, but it is something I've had to deal with more than once. It's not fun for anyone, even if all you are is an observer.