Gear thread cont'd

[Tambro]

I understand the reason for locking that thread as you wanted your message to stay and not get distracted by other things being posted. That's fine. I do, however, want to continue this discussion from my point of view as I feel it's an important topic I've been dealing with for about as long as I've been in bands (6 years now? Not sure).

I completely respect not wanting to lend your gear. I play a solid state head, so it's pretty hard to fuck up, but if I played guitar and had a decent tube head (e.g. Mesa, 5150, etc.) I probably wouldn't lend it out to anyone but friends of mine. I've had friends lend out triple recs and watched drunk dudes just flail around with the settings thrashing with their guitar. It sucks watching your $2000+ amp that you saved up for, or have yet to pay off yet, that you LET SOMEONE BORROW get fucked around with. It's complete dis respect. I know Ryan doesn't want to lend out his drums anymore because he was sick of people mistreating them when he did. Because of this, I feel Tyler is completely justified. Just because you don't own gear doesn't give you the right to fuck around with someone else's when you show up to play and go "uhhh, we don't have amps or guitars or anything". (Please note this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general statement)

Last night I was pretty choked however. For the show tonight 3/4 bands are using our gear (luckily white ribs has agreed to let people play their drums. Stand up dudes! Thank you so much!) and we have no transport except my little 4 door sedan. I'm going to end up making probably 3 trips each way hauling gear because I just don't have enough room in my car to do it another way. This was the reason I was really hoping that we could borrow gear to hopefully save myself the time/gas/effort/stress of having to deal with it. I was wrong to be upset however, and Troyler has been super gracious to me and agreed to give me money to cover my gas of moving all our shit since nearly everyone at the show is needing to use it.

tl;dr: Legitimate point, Tyler. I support you. Other people should respect shit they borrow and be extremely gracious.

[dalamar501]

might only be 2/4 bands now.

Shared Arms decided to take their van over so they will have their gear.

[Tambro]

Seems unnecessary.

[grind/bro]

[Andrew]

I'm with Tyler and Tambo on this. I sink a lot of money into having the gear I want. I don't have a lot of money to sink into anything, so it's important I take care of the gear I have.

I've seen plenty of people do shitty things to gear they don't own. I've seen a lot of people without a drop of common sense to apply to the ramifications of wrecking gear they don't own.

I once saw a band borrow the band playing after them's bass guitar, only because their own bass was not very good (but fully functional). On the last song of their set, during their pre-planned spontaneous freak out, their bass player tore all the strings off his bass. And by his bass I mean the bass they borrowed from the band about to play after them. So guess what happened. The next band up had to borrow the shitty bass from the band before them to play. I was dumbfounded by the shittiness of this move, but said shitty dudes band were totally puzzled as to why this was an issue, because after all, they loaned their bass to the band, so it was fine.

Also once had a band I was not friends with but shared a rehearsal space with "borrow" a few bits of our drum kit without asking, or telling us. So we rolled in to practice the next day and couldn't do so because they didn't return the drumkit parts. I lost my shit on them, and they were completely at a loss, because "they needed that stuff to play a show". Just a boggling level of ignorance and self importance that blinded them to the wrong of what they did.

So yeah, the world is full of people who don't get the effort and cost behind owning a tool you cherish to create your art with that cost you hundreds or maybe even thousands of dollars to get. You'll always roll the dice with loaning stuff.

The heavy (though often artificial) accent on community within hardcore often makes you feel like the heel for not wanting to loan your gear. In not doing so, you aren't a "team player". Which I think is bogus. If you have something you aren't comfortable with loaning out, people should respect that.

[officespace]

As a member of a bnad where we have no gear except out instuments and a drum kit I must say I'm dumbfounded by the stupidity of people who would wreck people's gear when they were borrowing it. But I would like to say that it is helpful when bands share gear/lend gear as both a person who does shows ( as it cuts down on set up etc) and a band of teenagers with no way of hauling amps and shit on the skytrain(no of us drive). As our band does go "crazy" while playing I would never condone breaking bands gear that we borrow as that shit is theirs to create their art and if we broke someone's gear we would absolutely repay the band whose gear we broke(this happened to me as I broke the Rebel Spells mic cord by accident). It's once again a select few of people who are ruining something for everybody(shitty dudes breaking gear making it hard for us to use other bands gear ) but those who have lent us gear thank you and especially Andrew for letting us use your gear to record

-Darren

[officespace]

As a member of a bnad where we have no gear except out instuments and a drum kit I must say I'm dumbfounded by the stupidity of people who would wreck people's gear when they were borrowing it. But I would like to say that it is helpful when bands share gear/lend gear as both a person who does shows ( as it cuts down on set up etc) and a band of teenagers with no way of hauling amps and shit on the skytrain(no of us drive). As our band does go "crazy" while playing I would never condone breaking bands gear that we borrow as that shit is theirs to create their art and if we broke someone's gear we would absolutely repay the band whose gear we broke(this happened to me as I broke the Rebel Spells mic cord by accident). It's once again a select few of people who are ruining something for everybody(shitty dudes breaking gear making it hard for us to use other bands gear ) but those who have lent us gear thank you and especially Andrew and the rest of DAMAGES for letting us use your gear to record

-Darren

[lushveg]

. Just because you don't own gear doesn't give you the right to fuck around with someone else's when you show up to play and go "uhhh, we don't have amps or guitars or anything".

Worst vibe, especially if they are a local band. A local band's bassist did this at a show in Vancouver recently, totally whack.
If you know you need to borrow stuff, ask before the show.


Andrew, what band did that shit with the bass lent to them?

[tylerp]

not all gear wrecking is intentional. some people don't understand watts or ohms. some people don't know the quirks of gear (you can't tug my Acoustic 307's power cord since it's coming out, whoever borrowed it last didn't know that and now it totally needs to be replaced). I'd like to think that a band, even in punk and diy, should be responsible for their gear and transportation. it's great that the hardcore community is full of people so willing to lend. but it's scary how it's being assumed that if someone has an amp, anyone else is entitled to it. gear borrowing is best when it's done in advance and with lots of politeness and gratitude. I think Andrew and Tambo brought up great and valid points. all that being said, it's way better for a bunch of kids who can't afford amps or cars to be in a band rather than not. and sometimes borrowing is the only option. my original post was just saying that asking to borrow is cool, borrowing should never be assumed, and it does suck when the lender is in the "bad guy" position of having to say no.

[Andrew]

Andrew, what band did that shit with the bass lent to them?

It was a band back east that I played with fairly regularly in a band of mine of yore. Same band thought I was a dick for not wanting to loan them my amp after wards too.

[Andrew]

but those who have lent us gear thank you and especially Andrew for letting us use your gear to record

Not a problem, glad it worked out. To be fair though, only a little of it was mine and the rest was Hieg and Carl's.

Speaking of, All For The Best's demo will be out soon. Watch for it!

[xJohnnyx]

Sorry that I was kinda reluctant to lend out my amp at first, but my head had been damaged at another show and it cost me $50 to repair. I have also damaged my head myself and know that it is prone to not wanting to work right. Luckily everything was fine last night, in spite of the massive amounts of beer spilt on it. I just gotta put it out there though, a guitar amp IS NOT a coffee table!! Don't put your beverage on it!!

[Tambro]

I just gotta put it out there though, a guitar amp IS NOT a coffee table!! Don't put your beverage on it!!

Especially amps with fans on top, i.e. gallien-krueger heads and 5150s (know they have some form of ventilation on top)

[Crucified]

as an owner of very expensive gear, i do not ever want to lend my gear out. if someone talks to me(way before the show starts, days before) and i know them personally, then yeah, i'll probably let that happen but if people in bands don't have any gear and are actively booking shows without talking to anyone looking for gear, i fully feel like that band should not play. I have worked my ass off over the years creating what i feel is "my sound" and spent thousands on shit over time. it's time to grow up, get a fucking job and buy a god damn amp and guitar. If you are serious enough to write songs and play shows, be serious enough to have even low end gear that is good enough to play shows with. everyone else has to do it, you should too.


on the other half of this rant, if you're a touring band and you don't have room to bring all of your shit, you should know this ahead of time and the promoter should be able to talk to all of the bands involved and get something worked out for you. even locals, if you know your shit is broke or that it's not good enough, there is a lot of time(usually) before shows to work that out instead of showing up and possibly even delaying the start of a show because you didn't plan ahead.


/rant over. /i'mafucker

[Hollow]

Ugh. Been reading this thread and have had my head in my hands more than a few times. I can't believe the way people feel they can treat another person's equipment. That story about the bass alone made me furious (seriously? Ripped out all the strings?).

I'm a vocalist, can't play anything worth shit, and I would be pissed if someone fucked up the very minimal gear I have. I can only imagine what it would be like to lose a $2000 head because of some jackass.

This whole thing makes me wanna call everyone who ever loaned any of my bands gear and say thank you again.

[Andrew]

I will add regarding my above post that I do loan my gear to people I trust and have been a good sport about emergencies in the past. I'm not a hard ass about it, but I'm also not easy going about loaning my stuff out to just anyone. I think bottom line, it's the gear owner's decision and that decision should be respected.

[officespace]

it's time to grow up, get a fucking job and buy a god damn amp and guitar. If you are serious enough to write songs and play shows, be serious enough to have even low end gear that is good enough to play shows with. everyone else has to do it, you should too.

Yeah I know dude b/c when my cheque comes the first thing I think about is my bands "sound"

[ZACH ATTACK]

When I get my pay cheque one of the first things I do is pay rent on our jamspace. I've spent entire pay cheques on various gear that's necessary to be in a band. My next cheque is probably going towards a new amp so I can work on my "sound".

[Andrew]

it's time to grow up, get a fucking job and buy a god damn amp and guitar. If you are serious enough to write songs and play shows, be serious enough to have even low end gear that is good enough to play shows with. everyone else has to do it, you should too.

Yeah I know dude b/c when my cheque comes the first thing I think about is my bands "sound"

[officespace]

I can't speak for darren but what I figured he meant was. Some people who play in bands have more important things to spend their money on.(ie I love playing in bands but at this time I do not have money to spend at gear. This may change soon but as of now I dont make enough. I have to help pay rent, utilities and food.