whose fashion is more wack?

[canon.docre]

True. There seems to be a big backlash against "hipster metal", and this backlash usually involves homophobic slurs, but I don't generally get along with metal dudes and their style is generally just as wack, if not more wack.

I think fashion is general is pretty silly, even though I subscribe to a pretty strict style. Fashion designers, even the really outlandish ones, I get. That is art. My following comments do not shit on fashion designers, or people who have a critical and analytical eye for fashion:

I think what gets to me is what a style, and subscription to a subculture represents. Taking away the people that "just don't get it," or just dress a certain way purely to conform, what is the underlying meaning behind someone who dresses like a metalhead, or a crust punk, as opposed to someone who dresses like a hipster? What goes through my head when I choose how I dress is, "I don't care if people think I have money, and I don't care if I appear to have good fashion sense. I want people to know that I am really into music. I also want people to consider that I may have strong political beliefs that are in line with some of the music I listen to, like anarchism, anti-capitalism, and socially-conscious idealism." That is a pretty basic rundown. You can bet I would feel just as comfortable dressing in a way that doesn't say anything, but it would involve the least amount of money, and the highest amount of utility, while being as plain as possible. If one day I decided I hated crust punk, I imagine I would still wear carharts, and ditch the band shirts.

What does a hipster say with how they dress? Do they say anything? Does "hipster" culture actually strive for anything? Should a culture strive for something, or stand for something? I think so. The meaning of life is not getting drunk on PBR and hooking up with cute people you just met, which is the stereotype. What about the hipster music scene? Do any of those bands sing about anything worthwhile? Show me some examples. Art shows are cool. I go to those and mingle with hipsters. Some of them won't even look me in the eye or respond to me when I try to make conversation. Seriously. Anyways, I think expressing yourself is great, but its like really bad poetry or something.
"I'm expressing myself with how I dress/this poem."
"But what does it mean?"
"I don't know."

Do not let this evolve into a conversation about how crust punks can't change the world.

[officespace]

I usually have a giant pile of clothes in my washroom. Whatevers in there I wear. No bullshit.


-Warren

[PaulyHC]

i'm of the opinion that crust punks can't change the world

[officespace]

Id rather it be a world of crust punks than hipsters

[canon.docre]

i'm of the opinion that crust punks can't change the world

I'm of the opinion of SHUT UP.

[Jordan f.]

Wear what you want to wear when you want to wear it. I'm gonna give you a hard time for what you wear. You're gonna give me a hardtime for what I wear. No one is orignial, the world keeps turning.

[Jordan f.]

that said, my fashion changes back and forth. Some days I dress pretty "youth crew", some days its more 90's (I love windbreakers to much FUCK YOU) and some times I feel like looking (to some extent) well dressed.

Cut of shorts+judge hoody= comfy and crucial
jeans+hoody+trial windbreaker=warm and cosy
jeans+ben sherman button up+fred perry jacket=sharp

[Hollow]

Wear what you want to wear when you want to wear it. I'm gonna give you a hard time for what you wear. You're gonna give me a hardtime for what I wear. No one is original, the world keeps turning.

This.

[grind/bro]

What does a hipster say with how they dress?

That they are trying to synthesize their various interests through their wardrobe? Just like every other young person alive?

Should a culture strive for something, or stand for something?

It's a subculture, not a culture. It's silly to point out that "hipsters" look different because do they really? They wear pants, shirts, dresses, hats, etc just like anyone else. I guess they strive to be accepted by their peers, and make enough money to live. They're normal people.

Do they say anything?

Some do, some don't. I think it all depends on the person.

Does "hipster" culture actually strive for anything? Should a culture strive for something, or stand for something? I think so.

Self identity? People work their ways through various identities throughout their life. It helps people deal with the changing world around them. That's not the main factor but it's a large part.

The meaning of life is not getting drunk on PBR and hooking up with cute people you just met, which is the stereotype.

How are they different from the people who get drunk on Mikes Hard Lemonade and go clubbing at 9One9? This is what young people in North America do. It's just a phase. The whole "fashion" element is just based on what makes you feel comfortable and what your personal aesthetic is. I've seen "hipster" parents, who dress all skinny jeans and don't go out and slam PBR. They probably give to charities, and work a 9-5 job.

What about the hipster music scene? Do any of those bands sing about anything worthwhile? Show me some examples.

There are bands to talk about politics in punk rock. Not all music has to be going out to smash the patriarchy and reform capitalism. Sometimes art, and music exists to display simple emotions or concepts, which I find just as important as politics/social upheaval. And Scott, I don't really think there is a "hipster music scene" as the entire concept behing it is that it's a synthesis of various styles. But I can guarantee a lot of bands listened to by "hipsters" have been involved politically, the indie rock scene isn't some sort of evil scheme of selfishness.

[KYLESTYLE]

The word 'hipster' is so loaded and flawed I don't know why you would use it in an argument. Possibly my biggest pet peeve is people ragging on this preconceived notion of a hipster. If you think I'm wrong, please define this term. It's so ambiguous it hurts.

As for your other bits: does music have to have an outright social message or stance to be considered 'good'? That puts me off. Everything is a shade of gray. I don't like messages being so obvious, but I guess I like the artistic side of art, especially in music. I think your whole argument relies on too many broad generalisations, but I guess that's what most opinions do. Also I would argue that simply because your shirt doesn't literally say something (eg. anarchy), doesn't mean your fashion has no purpose and meaning or that it has no statement. I don't know, I could go on, but my brain is too tired from writing all day.

[SewnFlesh]

crust is more wack

[xJohnnyx]

I completely agree with Kyle that "Hipster" is way too ambiguous. I wouldn't even call it a subculture, scene maybe, but definitely not a subculture. As for which one is more wack? It's completely dependant on what your own personal taste in aesthetics are. Personally, I think "Hipsters" look much better. Also I don't think people necessarily make conscious decisions about fashion all of the time. Sometimes people are attracted to things because they make an unconscious associations to other things such as political ideologies, or even other people who they may want to on some level emulate. My personal taste is affected by a lot of influences so it's difficult to say what I "think" about when I get dressed.

[righteousxjames]

A few things:

The term "hipster" is a vague derogatory label for anyone who looks either fashionable or interested in culture, so it's a problematic term. That said, I can't stand it when people are only interested in culture in the most vapid and noncommittal way possible, i.e. by looking hip. I'm also not into the vibe of the flannel art school assholes who try to look impoverished and chic at the same time. I guess I just contradicted myself through that mini diatribe, so feel free to call me on it. Despite these aversions, I try to not like on people based on their fashion. I wouldn't be too concerned with the innate political and cultural significance of dressing a certain way. I may not be into beanies but I certainly don't think what people are communicating through them is necessarily bad.

Anyways, everyone is vain and concerned with appearance to some degree; fashion is a way to present yourself and to communicate, and it is important on a personal level, but in the end it's just aesthetics. Personally, I look like an obvious hardcore kid most of the time, but I like to fix up/look sharp too (I bought a shirt for $170 last weekend and I don't give a fuck.) I've met many crusties who try to act like their fashion is somehow less vain than others and therefore superior, but that shit is really fucking annoying and hypocritical. Yes, they probably spend less money on clothes than I do, but they're not saving the world by doing this; sewing patches onto your pants does not mean you are living the revolution. It all seems to stem from that dubious "everything is political" attitude. In fact, fresh Nikes (and, conversely) dreadlock mullets don't seem to represent anything important enough to be concerned about. Some people have looked down on me because I wear Nikes and dress sharp on occasion despite the fact that I probably see eye to eye with them concerning most subjects.

EDIT: implicit in my (admittedly somewhat derisive) references to crusties is that I don't actually consider myself superior to them based on their aesthetic choices

[age of quarrel]

uughhhhhhhhh

[ebony]

i figure hipster means hip. isent hip part of the word hipster? i know how to spell, so i know that i am right.

when i get dressed in the morning, i put on what i layed out the night before. and i decide what it is going to be based on, what shoes i need to wear for the rain or not, and then what jewlery i want to wear. so i pick clothes that go with that. when i go shopping the LAST thing i think of is, whos gonna like this? because the only person that needs to like it is me. basically it all has to be good for work. i like to dress nice and other days i like yoga pants and a sweater. we cant avoid trends or fashion, because it is everywhere.. and it is what makes everything work.

i used to dress really dirty. ripped dirty patch jeans. i wore alot of hoodies and various strange accessories. i also wore alot of dark make up. im not sure what i was thinking, but at the time i liked it. and it was a part of who i was. im not sure that i was trying to be anything in particular, and nothing i ever wore had a "name". people always feel the need to name their outfits. like "oh, oh today i am an awkward british teen. so awkward yet stylish" im not kidding, somebody said that to me, and it wasent long ago. it kind of went in one ear and out the other because i didnt get it. but if thats what they like to do then cool. i could name my outfits too. like when i wear too much white i kind of feel like a marshmallow. so it could be like, smore couture.


anyways, im not touching on the original post much because i dont really feel like it. but thats my 2 cents. who cares. wear what you want. follow a trend, or dont. why does it matter to me?

[Human-Demise]

What does a hipster say with how they dress?

That they are trying to synthesize their various interests through their wardrobe? Just like every other young person alive?

Should a culture strive for something, or stand for something?

It's a subculture, not a culture. It's silly to point out that "hipsters" look different because do they really? They wear pants, shirts, dresses, hats, etc just like anyone else. I guess they strive to be accepted by their peers, and make enough money to live. They're normal people.

Do they say anything?

Some do, some don't. I think it all depends on the person.

Does "hipster" culture actually strive for anything? Should a culture strive for something, or stand for something? I think so.

Self identity? People work their ways through various identities throughout their life. It helps people deal with the changing world around them. That's not the main factor but it's a large part.

The meaning of life is not getting drunk on PBR and hooking up with cute people you just met, which is the stereotype.

How are they different from the people who get drunk on Mikes Hard Lemonade and go clubbing at 9One9? This is what young people in North America do. It's just a phase. The whole "fashion" element is just based on what makes you feel comfortable and what your personal aesthetic is. I've seen "hipster" parents, who dress all skinny jeans and don't go out and slam PBR. They probably give to charities, and work a 9-5 job.

What about the hipster music scene? Do any of those bands sing about anything worthwhile? Show me some examples.

There are bands to talk about politics in punk rock. Not all music has to be going out to smash the patriarchy and reform capitalism. Sometimes art, and music exists to display simple emotions or concepts, which I find just as important as politics/social upheaval. And Scott, I don't really think there is a "hipster music scene" as the entire concept behing it is that it's a synthesis of various styles. But I can guarantee a lot of bands listened to by "hipsters" have been involved politically, the indie rock scene isn't some sort of evil scheme of selfishness.

nic said everything i was about to, probably clearer too.

side bar i always felt my fashion was a synthesis of hipster/scenester and more metal inclinations.
i love hipsters by the way, a very good frend of mine looks like a perfect 50/50 blend of retro thrasher and hipster and he's the most patiently metal person I know

[reece]

I own one pair of blue jeans, one pair of carharts and one pair of black work pants.
I own maybe one shirt that isnt a band shirt.
People have commented on the weird mix of bands i represent aka damages patch with a darkthrone shirt and a haveheart hoodie.
I have no idea how to dress myself or how im representing myself.

[canon.docre]

What does a hipster say with how they dress?

That they are trying to synthesize their various interests through their wardrobe? Just like every other young person alive?

That is what they are doing, not what they are saying. What are their interests?

Should a culture strive for something, or stand for something?

It's a subculture, not a culture. It's silly to point out that "hipsters" look different because do they really? They wear pants, shirts, dresses, hats, etc just like anyone else. I guess they strive to be accepted by their peers, and make enough money to live. They're normal people.

This is fine, you haven't lost me at this point. Ultimately this whole thread isn't something I think about on a regular basis. I just basically thought it would be a fun discussion.

Do they say anything?

Some do, some don't. I think it all depends on the person.

You aren't answering my question, unfortunately. What are the ones who are saying something, saying?

Does "hipster" culture actually strive for anything? Should a culture strive for something, or stand for something? I think so.

Self identity? People work their ways through various identities throughout their life. It helps people deal with the changing world around them. That's not the main factor but it's a large part.

This I'm also comfortable with, although I see a lot of people who try out and identity, and then verbally attack it once they have moved on to another one. Does not inspire confidence that their current incarnation of self is any more genuine than the last.

I have found over the years that I am able to quickly disarm a lot of peoples stereotypes of me, based on my appearance, by relating to them on a human level that totally disregards appearances. Its easy .. don't get defensive, and don't judge the person you're talking to. ESPECIALLY based on their appearance.

The meaning of life is not getting drunk on PBR and hooking up with cute people you just met, which is the stereotype.

How are they different from the people who get drunk on Mikes Hard Lemonade and go clubbing at 9One9?

This isn't any different, which is kind of my point, but I guess the component I missed is hipster-ism isn't some sort of counter-culture. Its just .. another flavor of the bar scene. And the bar scene is a vapid, self-destructive cesspool of shittiness, and I've always felt that way, so this isn't me getting all high and mighty with my recent revelations of self. This exists in every subculture though, so that basically negates itself in the argument: all subcultures get drunk and do stupid shit and wallow around and do nothing, so what else do we have to measure with?

This is what young people in North America do. It's just a phase. The whole "fashion" element is just based on what makes you feel comfortable and what your personal aesthetic is. I've seen "hipster" parents, who dress all skinny jeans and don't go out and slam PBR. They probably give to charities, and work a 9-5 job.

Same with any aesthetic.

What about the hipster music scene? Do any of those bands sing about anything worthwhile? Show me some examples.

There are bands to talk about politics in punk rock. Not all music has to be going out to smash the patriarchy and reform capitalism. Sometimes art, and music exists to display simple emotions or concepts, which I find just as important as politics/social upheaval.

I'm with you on that, as I am in/have played in many non-political bands, and been part of non-political entities and organizations.

So ultimately I come back to the only real measurement of which fashion is more wack than others is what it means, barring that its young and vibrant flag bearers are a bunch of fashion-conscious drunks, loudmouthed drunk idealists, or introspective and artistic young drunks. Its so superficial that it doesn't really even matter. Nick you put it quite eloquently in many of your responses, and I think making real judgments on people based on their appearance is shitty, and I think its utterly ridiculous when older people, my friends and peers, actually stoop to that level. Especially when it comes to crust punks, but that's just because I have a soft spot for them, and I think a lot of their politics rule.

EDIT: Reece people think you're a misdirected nazi.

[reece]

you mean they KNOW i am a full blown nazi.

[tylerp]

yo just posting in this thread so people can tell me what I am based on what I wear so that I know how to act.