tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
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tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
hey I'm going to be buying a guitar head in the near future and I was curious as to the pros and cons of these. Reliability, repair, sound... what are the differences?
gonna do some coke off my doom cannon if you get my drift
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
Tone is the difference.
The general belief is that tube amps sound better, but ultimately it depends on the tone you're after.
The general belief is that tube amps sound better, but ultimately it depends on the tone you're after.
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
I find it hard to talk about tone because I'm not particularly sure what terms to use or what I'm really after. I'd be using it with kunta haji and in all the recordings so far we've used different equipment and haven't really locked down a specific "sound". I liked the Sunn concert lead Nick was using at the show on Friday but I think he was running it through a second head.
I'd like a sludgy, harsh tone for my own projects though. I'm not even sure if that's possible or an oxymoron.
I'd like a sludgy, harsh tone for my own projects though. I'm not even sure if that's possible or an oxymoron.
gonna do some coke off my doom cannon if you get my drift
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
Nick was running the Sunn with a Traynor poweramp. All solid state rig.
Find some examples of tones you like and then see what you can get that gives you a similar tone.
The Ampeg that Tyler uses in Watcher is solid state and it'd sound great in KH.
Find some examples of tones you like and then see what you can get that gives you a similar tone.
The Ampeg that Tyler uses in Watcher is solid state and it'd sound great in KH.
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CodyCreepcore
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
i had solid state gear for the longest time and got a tube head one magical day and i'll never go back, unless of course im broke or something. solid states just have too much digital noise at loud volumes. they can still sound ok tho. but the crunchy, warm, and rounded sound of tubes is 100x better.
you said your looking for something sludgy and harsh. having a downtuned guitar with tons of gain going through a 5150 head has that nice tube compression on the low end making it so heavy. when i think harsh i just think lots of feedback, noise and stuff.
you said your looking for something sludgy and harsh. having a downtuned guitar with tons of gain going through a 5150 head has that nice tube compression on the low end making it so heavy. when i think harsh i just think lots of feedback, noise and stuff.
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
My vote is generally for tube as well. In my experience tube amps tend to sound better when they are pushed hard, opposed to solid state tend worse when they are cranked. Maintenance is a concern then solid state might be a better option. Tubes need replacing eventually, and depending on how many you have it can be pricey. But I think ultimately it will just be a matter of trying a bunch of stuff and deciding for yourself what sounds the best to you. 5150 are pretty Sweet, but they kinda seem like a one trick pony, but then I have never owned one. Personally, I am so over Mesa. I never got a tone that I really like out of mine, and as soon as u don't want to sound metal, you might as well just forget it. Just my opinion.
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
It's not as simple as "tube vs solid state" ever. Finding a tone you like is really fun and you should be open to all options. Many entry level guitar heads and combos are solid state because they are much easier to produce and maintain. Almost any given practice amp that someone starts with will be solid state and this gives solid state gear a bad rap because there are way more really bad solid state amps out than good ones. And usually someone's first "real gear" purchase is a tube head, which is always infinitely better than the solid state practice amp they started with, so this leads to solid state gear getting an even worse rap by comparison.
I have experienced both realms and have owned:
Peavey VTX MX (Tube power amp, solid state pre)
Ampeg V4 (Tube)
Sunn Model T Fender reissue (Tube)
Marshall AVT-50H (Mostly solid state, I think they call it "valvestate" which is sort of a buzzword)
Acoustic 370 (Solid state)
Ampeg vh-140c (Solid state)
Acoustic 134 (Solid state)
DOD Grind IT combo (Probably like the Marshall, "integrated tube" but mostly solid state)
Orange Tiny Terror (Tube)
The reality is that all of these amps sound wildly different than each other and it's not really the tube vs solid state argument that characterizes any of them. Although there is a certain common feel and sound between the all-tube stuff I've played, and a certain stark responsiveness that is common with most all solid state stuff. The Acoustic stuff sounds nothing like the Ampeg, and all of those sound nothing like the Marshall, etc.
Some bands that I really like that used primarily solid state amps and had killer tone: Orchid, Black Flag, Pantera.
My vh-140c was the head of choice for lots of Florida death metal bands and that's because it sounds full and brutal. It's probably my favourite head of those I've owned. Just because the built-in preamp is incredible. I bought this from a dude on a message board and had it shipped here, I've only ever seen one pop up once on Vancouver's craigslist.
Tube amps are known for their "warmth" and this is true, there is this weird heavy organic feel when you're playing a tube amp. It tends to feel like there's a lot of power and oomph behind it. The feel and smell of tubes warming up is something special and sort of part of the experience. I know why people really are drawn to tube amps and I still am as well.
When you're looking for a head, or a first head, it's really good to survey the kind of bands that have tone you like and see what they're using.
Yeah, tube amps sound best when they're really being pushed, my Ampeg v4 was one of the best examples of this. It sounded like every great "heavy tone" classic rock band in my bedroom.
Don't neglect the cab choice! I still want to get a better 4x12 but this can have a huge impact on your tone.
About reliability... anything made recently will likely be fine. If you get something ancient (like my v4 was), some work is sometimes needed. Tubes don't go bad as often as people might have you think though. Kevin's JCM 800 blew up once while I was trying it out. A solid state amp is rarely going to spontaneously die like that, though once I had the power cut in and out at the Troyler. You can often gauge how well something has been maintained. Fresh tubes and a bias is often a cure-all, but don't get something broken and assume you can fix it. Matched sets are usually a good idea. Tube amps do feel more fragile but it doesn't really matter ~that~ much.
When buying, make sure you try it out and really get a feel for how it sounds. Make sure you have a chance to really crank the volume too.
I have experienced both realms and have owned:
Peavey VTX MX (Tube power amp, solid state pre)
Ampeg V4 (Tube)
Sunn Model T Fender reissue (Tube)
Marshall AVT-50H (Mostly solid state, I think they call it "valvestate" which is sort of a buzzword)
Acoustic 370 (Solid state)
Ampeg vh-140c (Solid state)
Acoustic 134 (Solid state)
DOD Grind IT combo (Probably like the Marshall, "integrated tube" but mostly solid state)
Orange Tiny Terror (Tube)
The reality is that all of these amps sound wildly different than each other and it's not really the tube vs solid state argument that characterizes any of them. Although there is a certain common feel and sound between the all-tube stuff I've played, and a certain stark responsiveness that is common with most all solid state stuff. The Acoustic stuff sounds nothing like the Ampeg, and all of those sound nothing like the Marshall, etc.
Some bands that I really like that used primarily solid state amps and had killer tone: Orchid, Black Flag, Pantera.
My vh-140c was the head of choice for lots of Florida death metal bands and that's because it sounds full and brutal. It's probably my favourite head of those I've owned. Just because the built-in preamp is incredible. I bought this from a dude on a message board and had it shipped here, I've only ever seen one pop up once on Vancouver's craigslist.
Tube amps are known for their "warmth" and this is true, there is this weird heavy organic feel when you're playing a tube amp. It tends to feel like there's a lot of power and oomph behind it. The feel and smell of tubes warming up is something special and sort of part of the experience. I know why people really are drawn to tube amps and I still am as well.
When you're looking for a head, or a first head, it's really good to survey the kind of bands that have tone you like and see what they're using.
Yeah, tube amps sound best when they're really being pushed, my Ampeg v4 was one of the best examples of this. It sounded like every great "heavy tone" classic rock band in my bedroom.
Don't neglect the cab choice! I still want to get a better 4x12 but this can have a huge impact on your tone.
About reliability... anything made recently will likely be fine. If you get something ancient (like my v4 was), some work is sometimes needed. Tubes don't go bad as often as people might have you think though. Kevin's JCM 800 blew up once while I was trying it out. A solid state amp is rarely going to spontaneously die like that, though once I had the power cut in and out at the Troyler. You can often gauge how well something has been maintained. Fresh tubes and a bias is often a cure-all, but don't get something broken and assume you can fix it. Matched sets are usually a good idea. Tube amps do feel more fragile but it doesn't really matter ~that~ much.
When buying, make sure you try it out and really get a feel for how it sounds. Make sure you have a chance to really crank the volume too.
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
your idea of sludgy but "harsh" is kinda a contradicting mix.
the closest i can read into that is this - certain stoner and doom bands at times use a good big fuzz to get that, but it's really the only way. sludgy generally means low gain, lots of bass and mids, huge volume. think kinda like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_gqEi4KHc. if you go that way, you'll have to have a good, heavy sounding vintage amp like a jcm800 marshall or an ampeg v4 along with the right pedal in front to push the amp to where you want it. that won't get you exactly the sound of that track (unless you have the right Matamp or one of its cousins, you never will) but it'll get you close and be a good start. if you want a sludgy kinda tone that still has a big, really rich, cutting sound with lots of harmonics you could use a rig like what i've used for the heavy bands... but you're probably not that picky though - plus, that'll be really expensive...
don't fuck with any modern metal amps. too expensive, too boring, too lifeless. if you're gonna go vintage tube amps, you might have to spend some in preventative maintenance, but you'll have a way more pure, rich sound that'll be less obvious with more room for your own personality, rather than sounding like you played through the same filter as a thousand that came before you (like you'd get with a modern amp). a tube amp will probably average out to $100-$200 per year for every year that you're using it regularly jammins and giggins, whether it needs repair or not... because EVENTUALLY, it will.
think of a great tube amp as like the first time you heard a beauty classic rock record on vinyl... that rich, full, almost 3D-like dimension to the sound stage due to the richness of the harmonic content. i could go into scientific terms here as to why this is, but basically the human ear is natural biased towards tube amps.
the only upside to solid state aside from the cost parts is that they do have a kinda nice, real hard percussive THUMP and punch in the low end due to the differences in the way their power amps are... hence why they worked so good in a band like PANTERA.
i've only paid more than $500 for a couple of the amps that i've ever owned, and the closest thing i've ever had to a solid state amp was a sunn 1200s bass amp with a tube preamp and a solid state power - tubes only in my units.
oh yeah, don't get anything less than 100 watts. don't listen to anyone, you play in a punk band. that means you need loud.
the closest i can read into that is this - certain stoner and doom bands at times use a good big fuzz to get that, but it's really the only way. sludgy generally means low gain, lots of bass and mids, huge volume. think kinda like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_gqEi4KHc. if you go that way, you'll have to have a good, heavy sounding vintage amp like a jcm800 marshall or an ampeg v4 along with the right pedal in front to push the amp to where you want it. that won't get you exactly the sound of that track (unless you have the right Matamp or one of its cousins, you never will) but it'll get you close and be a good start. if you want a sludgy kinda tone that still has a big, really rich, cutting sound with lots of harmonics you could use a rig like what i've used for the heavy bands... but you're probably not that picky though - plus, that'll be really expensive...
don't fuck with any modern metal amps. too expensive, too boring, too lifeless. if you're gonna go vintage tube amps, you might have to spend some in preventative maintenance, but you'll have a way more pure, rich sound that'll be less obvious with more room for your own personality, rather than sounding like you played through the same filter as a thousand that came before you (like you'd get with a modern amp). a tube amp will probably average out to $100-$200 per year for every year that you're using it regularly jammins and giggins, whether it needs repair or not... because EVENTUALLY, it will.
think of a great tube amp as like the first time you heard a beauty classic rock record on vinyl... that rich, full, almost 3D-like dimension to the sound stage due to the richness of the harmonic content. i could go into scientific terms here as to why this is, but basically the human ear is natural biased towards tube amps.
the only upside to solid state aside from the cost parts is that they do have a kinda nice, real hard percussive THUMP and punch in the low end due to the differences in the way their power amps are... hence why they worked so good in a band like PANTERA.
i've only paid more than $500 for a couple of the amps that i've ever owned, and the closest thing i've ever had to a solid state amp was a sunn 1200s bass amp with a tube preamp and a solid state power - tubes only in my units.
oh yeah, don't get anything less than 100 watts. don't listen to anyone, you play in a punk band. that means you need loud.
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Human-Demise
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
I don't think you were trying to but that completely sold me on solid state.destroy wrote:the only upside to solid state aside from the cost parts is that they do have a kinda nice, real hard percussive THUMP and punch in the low end due to the differences in the way their power amps are... hence why they worked so good in a band like PANTERA.
"hahaha, you were moved, wuss."
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm going to do a bit of shopping at l&m this weekend and shop around
Yeah I thought sludgy/harsh was a bad description. I think I just mean something that's really really loud but with a strong attack? I heard solid state amps are good for that sort of thing and I like the noise Japanese dbeat bands get (Disclose's split with homomilitia is a good example of the feedback being prominent without being annoying) and more recent bands like Lotus Fucker and other grind/pv stuff. Steve Albini's sound is killer too, but I imagine alot of that comes from using the aluminum guitar.
Yeah I thought sludgy/harsh was a bad description. I think I just mean something that's really really loud but with a strong attack? I heard solid state amps are good for that sort of thing and I like the noise Japanese dbeat bands get (Disclose's split with homomilitia is a good example of the feedback being prominent without being annoying) and more recent bands like Lotus Fucker and other grind/pv stuff. Steve Albini's sound is killer too, but I imagine alot of that comes from using the aluminum guitar.
gonna do some coke off my doom cannon if you get my drift
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
the Harmonic Percolator is a big component of Albini's sound, but he's also a huge nerd about all things music gear.
is this what you're talking about? sounds like a wash of Metal Zone white noise to me.
is this what you're talking about? sounds like a wash of Metal Zone white noise to me.
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Human-Demise
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
I think that disclose guitar sound is alsothe result of improper recording techniques
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CodyCreepcore
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
maybe but probabaly not...... ive heard a few bands that have guitar tones like that live and i absolutly despise it. unless its like noise grind or something. but dbeat with that.... ugh.... wimpy sounding. give me brutality!Human-Demise wrote:I think that disclose guitar sound is alsothe result of improper recording techniques
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
Human-Demise wrote:I think that disclose guitar sound is alsothe result of improper recording techniques
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CodyCreepcore
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
recording doesnt need your stinkin rules MAN!
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trappedinside
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Human-Demise
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
in this case it does, to me it sounds like its recorded on a tape recorder, nothing wrong with raw recordings, I just draw the limit on actually bad stuff.
"hahaha, you were moved, wuss."
Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
it's hard to say what's good and bad though. it's just like the tube vs ss debate. some people like the harsh tinny super-gain white noise thing. I like lots of articulation and a bit more meat. some people like anything that comes out of a solid state amp. it's all cool and why we have such a wide range of tonal possibilities. better that than everyone using a triple rec.
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CodyCreepcore
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Re: tubes vs solid state (guitar heads)
OH I WANTtylerp wrote: better that than everyone using a triple rec.