DANGERS + Thank You + Thoughts on moms & suicide

[grind/bro]

This thread is making this board. Awesome.

[dalamar501]

This thread is making this board. Awesome.

Really.

I don't feel i need to voice anything in here as it would just be a rehash of things already said.

[Hollow]

I've tried reading everything in this thread, and honestly I can't . Lots of reasons. Many of them to do with being bone crushingly tired. So, I'm simply going to put what I had in my head at the beginning, and if I touch on points already spoken about or put to rest, my apologies.

I wasn't at this show. I don't know exactly what was said, meaning I cannot in good conscious condone or condemn. I simply am not aware of enough of the facts. However, I do know a few things.
First, I have been touched by suicide more than I wish. Actual, tooth and nail suicide, where my best friends brother shot himself because he couldn't deal with the increasing emptiness he felt. Or the time I watched a man fall from five stories up for reasons I will never know. Long suicides, where I saw good men drink until they were unrecognizable to their friends, their family, themselves. This is suicide, too. It does not leave emptiness, or "broken" human beings. It leaves devastation. We're talking Hurricane Katrina type shit, in an emotional context. I watched my best friends family go from dysfunctional but coping to absolutely destroyed in seconds flat. All it took was a doctor saying "I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do to revive him." and that was it; their family no longer existed. To put it into the lingo of the internet: Suicide is serious biz.

Second; I was/am suicidal. I have been since I was about 13. This is not something to worry about. Trust me, if I was going to off myself it would have happened a long, long time ago. I'm very stable now, my depressive episodes are few and far between and I now have the emotional and mental tools to deal with these episodes in healthy ways. But I still think about it. I doubt a day goes by where I don't. 99.9% of the time these are very immature, "they'll miss me when I'm gone" scenarios in my head in which I invariably am able to witness the (incredibly selfishly) satisfying grief portrayed by my friends and family. These inevitably pass within nano-seconds, after which I shake my head, call myself an ass and get about my business. But sometimes...sometimes I have really difficult days. A day like that hasn't happened in while, but it has happened and it will happen again. At one point in my life it was a struggle to not buy a gun. This, also, is serious biz.

Third: Suicide is to art what clouds are to the sky. Not every part of art is touched by suicide, but suicide is intrinsically connected to art. If you discuss art, you will inevitably discuss suicide. This is good. Art exists as a way for us to tackle incredibly difficult subjects in a way that our minds can handle. While not everyone's viewpoints will be valid, the discussion itself is incredibly important. Dialectic cannot exist without opposing concepts, and discourse will always lead to new ideas. I believe that, fundamentally, this was Al's point. He wanted to start a discussion, to have people think and discuss WHAT suicide is, and what it means. I just feel he did it in a fairly unfortunate way. Do I agree with his concepts vis a vis suicide? Hell no. Honestly, they come across like the ideas of someone who's favorite artists all committed suicide and so feels that suicide leads to great art (or perhaps a better way to put it: suicide is the inevitable conclusion of great art). This is faulty logic. One of my all time favorite authors is HP Lovecraft. The man crafted intensely interesting horror stories that were insightful not only in the way his characters were portrayed, but also in the way they reacted to fear. He was also a disgusting racist. Does that mean racism leads to great writing (or in the inverse manner of Al's arguments, that great writing leads to racism)? No, no it does not. One must separate the artist from the art.

Finally, Suicide is ugly. Suicide destroys people. Suicide will always be a part of society, and so we must discuss and examine it's reasoning and it's existence. Al started this discussion here, and for that I am grateful. I hope this thread continues for a long long time, and that the discussion is exhausted in every avenue possible. Don't let your emotions get the better of you. It is difficult to say the least, considering the subject manner. But for precisely that reason I'm asking that cooler heads prevail. Do the subject justice. Discuss it. Refrain from ad hominem's, from pejorative name calling, from all the easy internet fall backs. Be academic on this one, folks. It will be so much better in the end.

I'm not going to respond any more in this thread (or at least, I'll try not to). If you want to talk about something I said, feel free to PM me. The stuff I discussed has already left me shaking and somewhat upset. I'm gonna go smoke a joint, watch some t.v., and go to bed.

-Willa

P.S. Seriously, I'm not gonna commit suicide. Really. I love my family way to much, and I've never been happier or healthier in my life. Seriously. Don't freak out.

[Al Brown]

Mostly, I'm going to remove myself from the discussion in the hope that it becomes less a personal fingerpointing type affair and more a theoretical discussion. Some last points I feel compelled to make as I do feel somewhat "called out."

1) I am a therapist for special ed kids in elementary school, mostly with Autism spectrum disorders.
2) My personal opinions re: any touchy subject are never shared at work nor with the kids I service.
3) I have never directly suggested to anyone that they kill themselves.
4) There is a large difference between accepting that there are merits to suicide and handing out a gun to wayward souls.
5) My favorite artists are: Donald Barthelme, Neko Case, Roald Dahl, Herman Hesse, Salvador Dali, Rene Magritte, Joel Sternfeld, William Eggleston, and Beethoven. None victims of suicide. Some still alive!
6) Some bluntly stated and oversimplified beliefs I hold:

a) Sanity is overrated and misunderstood.
b) Happiness is not a goal worth striving for (though also not something to purposefully avoid).
c) Suicide is horrible, but not shameful.
d) Helping to make someone's life more closely resemble the life they desire is one of the best ways to spend your time.
e) Sometimes people desire ugly lives.
f) That is okay.

7) There is a big difference in how I think about these subjects and how I engage with them.
8) This is a good article, but you'll have to order the magazine for the whole shebang: http://www.believermag.com/issues/20100 ... cle_dagata
9) Goodnight.
10) For real this time.

al
alfredthefourth@gmail.com (if you feel like you want to discuss further with me personally)

[grind/bro]

This is the best kind of Suicide.

[Andrew]

This is the best kind of Suicide.

Rollins Band covered this song.

[grind/bro]

Really? POST NOW/

[officespace]

A kid at my school killed himself last night. He was in grade 11. Everyone from the senior grades seemed pretty bummed since they all almost knew either him or his brother.

[Andrew]

A kid at my school killed himself last night. He was in grade 11. Everyone from the senior grades seemed pretty bummed since they all almost knew either him or his brother.

Sorry to hear that guys.

[tylerp]

that episode of 80's degrassi high about suicide is really rough. probably the most serious episode of the entire series. I felt especially bad for caitlin, who will have to be haunted by a dead boyfriend. I mean yeah, she's strong-willed and beautiful, but that situation is hard to deal with.

[Rude Boy Puff]

autumn leaves, dying leaves
season of death
when winds blow cold
thoughts of death creep in as i sleep
i dream i'm in a coffin
safe from the life i don't want to lead
i'm not afraid
soothing, black and warm
soothing, black and warm
safe from the pain
and safe from the fools
safe, soothing, black.

[Rude Boy Puff]

Claude has a sick bauhaus t shirt
OG degrassi was on point with youth culture and the first popular tv series to incorperate ugly ugly children
much respect

[tylerp]

wow, how did you find that??? that was the dude's hinting-at-suicide poem, right?

[Rude Boy Puff]

I remembered the soothing , black and warm SOOTHING BLACK AND WARM part from a running inside joke and just googled it

[Rude Boy Puff]

4:05 in