interesting article

[reece]

http://www.metalsucks.net/2010/07/19/tr ... ks-column/

[Rude Boy Puff]

Is he talking about Scion?
Their marketing campaign really makes no sense to me.

Anyway I really agree with this.
"To expand on this as well: Really, really think about it. Fifteen dollars for a show is unacceptable, yet you’ll drop $18 to sit in an IMAX theatre and jerk off to Avatar or something else along those lines. You’ll get a large popcorn and stuff your fat face and wash it down with a 128 ounce big gulp of Mountain Dew. You’ll drop $30 dollars to see a two or three hour film (and probably buy it for $20 on DVD later), yet spending $15-$25 on admission and, maybe, a shirt or record at a show… an experience that is different every night… spending that $25 is too expensive? It’s compromising your values? Seriously, I can’t say “Fuck you” loud enough right now."

After that I got sick of the writers condesending tone and closed the article. I get it you tour congradulations.

[Andrew]

I don't agree with every specific point touched on, but I agree with the general point he made. I think accessibility to HC and punk is still important, but the spirit of that idea has been twisted in a lot of the current scenes.

[Hollow]

If you read the article he's reacting too, it brings up a lot of really good points as well. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I will say this: Ryan Mckenney seems to have really thought through this decision that he and his band mates made, and while I'm not sure I would make the same choices, I have to respect that.

[keith.]

gotta pay the bills to keep upping your punx

[Human-Demise]

all i gott say is if any corporation gave me money and asked for nothing/barley nothing in return i'd take it.

also as many can attest, i try and buy as much merch as possible, not always cause i want it but thats were the money is.
(ive bought shirts from bands i didnt care for cause you could tell by looking at how miserable they were they needed the money.)

and i've never had a problem with high ticket prices,if you love the band who cares how much.

[Peter]

Or, even better… how about there’s less shows every summer? I know it’s a crazy idea, but how about you wait until your band has more than a demo before you head out on a two month, half-booked tour during you college downtime? You know… that way a band that has workhorsed their asses off all year won’t get paid $50 less at a show because you jumped on it last minute and “just need gas money”… that’s not shitty for me to say. It happens way too much… an end result of laziness over effort.

That's the best part, for sure. I think people would be much more willing to pay the extra 5 bucks if there wasn't another show just like it so often. Obviously, I realize there haven't been much lately, but for awhile there were A LOT. It's easier to justify spending 12 or 15 if you dont have to every second weekend.

Also the line about the train hoppers made me lolz.

Also Also, (gets ready for people to disagree) but if people would just man-up and do shows at bars sometimes you'd be able to make more money since your overhead is so much lower and thus give bands more money... just saying... I think theres a way the society could do this and actually build a really good relationship with a venue... but i know how bars are frowned upon.

[Hollow]

Or, even better… how about there’s less shows every summer? I know it’s a crazy idea, but how about you wait until your band has more than a demo before you head out on a two month, half-booked tour during you college downtime? You know… that way a band that has workhorsed their asses off all year won’t get paid $50 less at a show because you jumped on it last minute and “just need gas money”… that’s not shitty for me to say. It happens way too much… an end result of laziness over effort.

That's the best part, for sure. I think people would be much more willing to pay the extra 5 bucks if there wasn't another show just like it so often. Obviously, I realize there haven't been much lately, but for awhile there were A LOT. It's easier to justify spending 12 or 15 if you dont have to every second weekend.

Also the line about the train hoppers made me lolz.

Also Also, (gets ready for people to disagree) but if people would just man-up and do shows at bars sometimes you'd be able to make more money since your overhead is so much lower and thus give bands more money... just saying... I think theres a way the society could do this and actually build a really good relationship with a venue... but i know how bars are frowned upon.

It's not so much that they're bars, but that they won't let underage people in. We want to have a place that anyone can come to and enjoy music, and by doing it at a bar you're immediately telling a major portion of the population that they're not welcome.

[Peter]

Or, even better… how about there’s less shows every summer? I know it’s a crazy idea, but how about you wait until your band has more than a demo before you head out on a two month, half-booked tour during you college downtime? You know… that way a band that has workhorsed their asses off all year won’t get paid $50 less at a show because you jumped on it last minute and “just need gas money”… that’s not shitty for me to say. It happens way too much… an end result of laziness over effort.

That's the best part, for sure. I think people would be much more willing to pay the extra 5 bucks if there wasn't another show just like it so often. Obviously, I realize there haven't been much lately, but for awhile there were A LOT. It's easier to justify spending 12 or 15 if you dont have to every second weekend.

Also the line about the train hoppers made me lolz.

Also Also, (gets ready for people to disagree) but if people would just man-up and do shows at bars sometimes you'd be able to make more money since your overhead is so much lower and thus give bands more money... just saying... I think theres a way the society could do this and actually build a really good relationship with a venue... but i know how bars are frowned upon.

It's not so much that they're bars, but that they won't let people underage in. We want to have a place that anyone can come to and enjoy music, and by doing it at a bar you're immediately telling a major portion of the population that they're not welcome.

But realistically how many underage kids are coming to hardcore shows here? A couple? MAYBE? And I'm not saying do ALL shows at Bars, but let's face the facts

a) people are going to drink at shows, and if they drink at a bar, you don't have to worry about the venue getting mad at you and never letting you book a show there again

b) when you're trying to raise money for hcfest, or even be able to pay the bands fairly, wouldn't it make sense to do it at a place where the overhead is way lower. nevermind the fact people are more likely to give a show they know nothing about a chance at a bar over a crappy hall... if anything i think bar shows would have a better chance of introducing people to these bands then AA shows.

[Crucified]

But realistically how many underage kids are coming to hardcore shows here?

Lots, or there wouldn't be an issue with doing only bar shows. I don't know who you are but have you come to shows in vic? The bar scene shows happen and do decently for themselves but the all ages scene no matter where you are needs to happen. I don't know what I would have done when i was 11 or 12 and just getting into live music if there wasn't an all ages scene where I grew up.

[KYLESTYLE]

When I've gone to troyler shows, at least, there are very few visibly underage kids. Maybe when you add bands like The Kick Off and Everyone Everywhere to your bill you get more of an all ages scene. If you build it, they will come, though, right?

I like house shows (all ages, obvs...) the best, but I like bar shows too once in a while and I think they can co-exist within a society. Also, i think the hardcore society do both types of shows...

[Jordan f.]

hardcore/punk has no place in a bar. Plain and simple. Anyone and everyone should be able to attend. It doesn't matter if only a handfull of people are underage, that's still a handfull of kids who can't enjoy the show and see a band they love because they aren't old enough.

**Disclaimer: "Anyone and everyone" refers to anyone who is respectful. Save the pointless replies like "then by that logic you should allow white power skins at your shows".

[Tambro]

VIHC Society has done fundraiser shows at Logans, we'll probably do more. Just sayin', we know there's money there.

[officespace]

yeah man fuck the kids. Also yeah no tours for bands just wanting to have fun. This is a serious fucking shit man. Forget just touring to have a little fun and see a couple of cool cities and some cool people man. rock and roll is serious


-Warren

[reece]

There are tons of underage kids..I am still underage and if there were only bar shows I would stop playing shows.

I played a bar once and I never need to play one again, I probably will have to one day and it will suck.

I also don't think shows need to 25 bucks that's a fucking joke

[Andrew]

Also Also, (gets ready for people to disagree) but if people would just man-up and do shows at bars

Poor choice of words. By "man-up" do you mean do things the easy way, because you seem confused as to why bands don't play bars otherwise.

I have no problem with bands playing bars, but a band choosing to not play bars is a much harder thing to do. Bars tend to pay better than AA shows. We've turned down single bar shows for more money than we've made from a half dozen of our all ages shows. Not really seeing how doing things in a way that is more taxing on the band's finances to uphold how we want to do things isn't "manning up".

Easy answer is to do all ages bar shows. Doesn't that make more sense/is more practical than excluding people because of age or expecting bands to compromise how they want to do things? Why put it on the bands to change how they do things when there's a better option available for a tiny bit of footwork on the part of the bar?

[Andrew]

Also yeah no tours for bands just wanting to have fun. This is a serious fucking shit man. Forget just touring to have a little fun and see a couple of cool cities and some cool people man. rock and roll is serious.

I didn't agree with the TT singer's point here, but for bands wanting to play music as much as possible/for a living it is serious business.

[grind/bro]

Music. Makes the people. Come toooogetherrrr.

[Hollow]

But realistically how many underage kids are coming to hardcore shows here? A couple? MAYBE? And I'm not saying do ALL shows at Bars, but let's face the facts

Comeback Kid had almost 200 people show up, and easily 75% of them were underage. When Scott did the Archspire show, same thing (although that's metal). At least half the people who come to the fest are underage. I see new, incredibly young kids at shows all the time.

a) people are going to drink at shows, and if they drink at a bar, you don't have to worry about the venue getting mad at you and never letting you book a show there again

There are ways of dealing with this in an all ages scene, which I won't get into on the internet. Next time I see you I can give you a run down of how it works.

b) when you're trying to raise money for hcfest, or even be able to pay the bands fairly, wouldn't it make sense to do it at a place where the overhead is way lower. nevermind the fact people are more likely to give a show they know nothing about a chance at a bar over a crappy hall... if anything i think bar shows would have a better chance of introducing people to these bands then AA shows.

Tambo already pointed out, but we've done bar show fundraisers before. I'm sorry the "crappy" halls we've booked weren't to your liking. They're all we have at the moment. It's why we're trying to get a cooperative venue open.

Peter, your a friend and a good dude, but please believe me when I tell you you do not know what your talking about here. I don't think you've ever put on a hardcore show (and please, correct me if I'm wrong), but they're very very very different from indie rock shows. The community is different, the expectations are different, and the vibe is different. The morals, ethics, and politics are completely different. We do all-ages shows for a very, very specific reason, and honestly money isn't it. Yeah, every once in a while we need to raise funds, and your right; bar shows are excellent for that. But hardcore should always have a thriving all-ages scene, or else it dies. Trust me.

If you wanna chat about it more, hit me up on facebook.


Also, in response to Warren: what Andrew said. It's a lot easier to swallow shit and lose a shit ton of money when you don't have to pay rent.

[Andrew]

Music. Makes the people. Come toooogetherrrr.

Good point, Madonna always plays all ages shows. She gets hardcore.