Hollow wrote: Do not get into this without understanding that it is a dirty, thankless, money-consuming job.
You did mention the getting mentioned on mic. But NOT completely thankless. You do get thanked on some bands liner notes. That is nice to see..... HAHAH
Victoria Straight Edge
tylerp wrote: I'm mostly stoked about turning things into money. it's like alchemy.
Hollow wrote:
Peter: I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you didn't know how much money we usually raise/pitch in to touring bands. I should have said something. Kind of makes the whole argument moot.
Yea. Ha.
Though it is a damn shame promoters are having to pay... I've had to before too. Though, I haven't done a lot of stuff for out of towners, its mostly been locals, so its never been too much.
Hollow wrote:
Peter: I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you didn't know how much money we usually raise/pitch in to touring bands. I should have said something. Kind of makes the whole argument moot.
Yea. Ha.
Though it is a damn shame promoters are having to pay... I've had to before too. Though, I haven't done a lot of stuff for out of towners, its mostly been locals, so its never been too much.
It does suck, but like I said I always knew what I was getting into when I did it. DIY definitely has a certain code that most people try to follow, but since it's not really something that can be enforced you do get the occasional dirtbag whose just in it to make a name for him/herself.
ZACH ATTACK wrote:Do drugs. Lots and lots of drugs. The harder the better. Then you'll go from being lonely to wishing that everybody would just fuck off because their a bunch of fucking buzzkills going on about how 'you've got a problem" and they "just want to be their to help you". You don't need any of them. You just need drugs.
ZACH ATTACK wrote:If you're not expecting to lose your shirt when you book shows your doing it for the wrong reasons.
ZACH ATTACK wrote:Do drugs. Lots and lots of drugs. The harder the better. Then you'll go from being lonely to wishing that everybody would just fuck off because their a bunch of fucking buzzkills going on about how 'you've got a problem" and they "just want to be their to help you". You don't need any of them. You just need drugs.
Willa brings up a lot of valid points. doing shows is stressful, damaging, and loses you money.
I think the shows I put on were for different reasons though. I seriously don't think we get that many new kids out at shows that really get involved in the community beyond having a bit of fun and drifting back into the scenecore tastes of their high school friends, so that never really made it "worth it" for me. I know, I know, the society has done a lot of shows with tons of new blood. I wish we could get them posting on here and stuff. but the reason I put on shows in the past was either because I was really stoked on certain local bands, just like having fun with my friends, or (this is the big one) want to bring a different style of bands to the city. I know it's hard to differentiate who did what but some of the best shows I've done were for Cowards, Loma Prieta, Kidcrash, and Graf Orlock. when I did the first vic graf show (this was four years ago) almost nobody here had heard of them. since then they came back and ghostlimb came. I think this has sort of influenced the types of bands people are into. pre-2005 hardcore shows were moshy and/or youthcrew. I liked them and was into it but I wanted to try my hand at bringing something different, mixing genres, etc. so that's why I started doing it.
the troyler shows are separate too. I guess we do them cause everyone wants us to and nobody else mans up to do regular house shows (other than the red door). doing house shows has started to turn me into a grump because it's taught me that some people are much more disrespectful in my house than I would ever be in theirs. and that it will always cause damage and huge messes. and that we have reason to be selective about invitations because people will take swings at you for no reason after your wisdom teeth have been taken out, or be totally sketchy, or not want to leave, or never want to take off their shoes. house shows are a lot more stressful than I would have ever guessed before doing them on the regular. but they're fun I guess. I should also note that the most respective audiences have been during the two totally random indie rock and acoustic singer-songwriter shows we did. most of you weren't even at the casiotone show but that shit was CLEAN after everyone left. and most people who were there were at their first troyler show. it was amazing.
I think doing shows is far from thankless. the bands always thank the promoter and I think everyone kind of gets the burden involved. I think it's more important to thank the people who help out and totally don't get thanked! this includes lots of people and you all know who you are. anyone who has swept or done the door or anything that's totally not fun.
ZACH ATTACK wrote:If you're not expecting to lose your shirt when you book shows your doing it for the wrong reasons.
ZACH ATTACK wrote:Probably also why more people don't book shows.
This is a problem I have with a lot of the nature of hardcore and punk shows. It seems like the way it goes is you get into doing shows because you want to be a part of the community and care about the music but then it simply becomes a test of your finances, graciousness and patience until you "break" and drop out of doing shows.
I don't like that, and never have. I prefer when people who do shows on a regular basis do pay themselves something for their effort. I'm not suggesting it's a means to make a living or that you even pay yourself much, but I like the idea that there is some compensation beyond enjoying the music for people who do shows. I believe everyone who does shows has a certain amount of shows in them before they reach their breaking point. If having a few bucks extra in your pocket from doing shows allows you to treat yourself to a nice meal or cover a bill each month, and that slows you getting to your breaking point, then I'm all for it.
I think it's noble that people do shows without paying themselves, but thinking practically I'd rather have the people who develop the talent for doing shows stick around for as long as possible and if a bit of money helps that happen there is nothing wrong with that in my book.
Andrew wrote:This is a problem I have with a lot of the nature of hardcore and punk shows. It seems like the way it goes is you get into doing shows because you want to be a part of the community and care about the music but then it simply becomes a test of your finances, graciousness and patience until you "break" and drop out of doing shows.
I don't like that, and never have. I prefer when people who do shows on a regular basis do pay themselves something for their effort. I'm not suggesting it's a means to make a living or that you even pay yourself much, but I like the idea that there is some compensation beyond enjoying the music for people who do shows. I believe everyone who does shows has a certain amount of shows in them before they reach their breaking point. If having a few bucks extra in your pocket from doing shows allows you to treat yourself to a nice meal or cover a bill each month, and that slows you getting to your breaking point, then I'm all for it.
I think it's noble that people do shows without paying themselves, but thinking practically I'd rather have the people who develop the talent for doing shows stick around for as long as possible and if a bit of money helps that happen there is nothing wrong with that in my book.
I think that's exactly it, too. It's easy to not care about losing money at first when you're just stoked on the bands you book and (hopefully) having a good time, but it's just as easy, if not easier, to get dissuaded and jaded from it all when you have one or two shows a year that you don't lose money on.
ZACH ATTACK wrote:If you're not expecting to lose your shirt when you book shows your doing it for the wrong reasons.
ZACH ATTACK wrote:Probably also why more people don't book shows.
This is a problem I have with a lot of the nature of hardcore and punk shows. It seems like the way it goes is you get into doing shows because you want to be a part of the community and care about the music but then it simply becomes a test of your finances, graciousness and patience until you "break" and drop out of doing shows.
I don't like that, and never have. I prefer when people who do shows on a regular basis do pay themselves something for their effort. I'm not suggesting it's a means to make a living or that you even pay yourself much, but I like the idea that there is some compensation beyond enjoying the music for people who do shows. I believe everyone who does shows has a certain amount of shows in them before they reach their breaking point. If having a few bucks extra in your pocket from doing shows allows you to treat yourself to a nice meal or cover a bill each month, and that slows you getting to your breaking point, then I'm all for it.
I think it's noble that people do shows without paying themselves, but thinking practically I'd rather have the people who develop the talent for doing shows stick around for as long as possible and if a bit of money helps that happen there is nothing wrong with that in my book.
I completely agree with this. Both from someone in a band perspective and as just a regular audience member I'd have no problem with the promoter paying themselves something, like 50 bucks even maybe, buy yourself a used pedal or something, a new shirt, whatever as a reward for all the hard work. I don't think it's unreasonable. The only problem is there's rarely enough money leftover to do this (though when there is, I think the promoters should still pay themselves a bit).
I play bass. I play guitar. I do both poorly. What's up.
If one can make enough money from promoting shows to have a little something left over for themselves that's awesome. But anybody who does anything in underground DIY cultures expecting to have money left over needs a reality check.
