ATTN: Willa

[dalamar501]

I want it back again
The spirit that WE ONCE HAD
Showing all these new hards
They're not SO FUCKIN' BAD
You and your crew
Would have never MADE IT THROUGH
The days we hung out
In 1982
The New York Brotherhood
I can't let go
The New York Brotherhood
where did they go?
We called it the Wolfpack
We called it UNITED BLOOD
Wore chains around our waists
And CONSTRUCTION GLOVES
Thompkins Sq. on a saturday night
See my brother, he's in a fight
They got him down, it's 3 on 1
10 of us show, GUESS WHO WON?
We hung out on 7th and A
Friends worked the door
We didn't have to pay
Boston came around one night
Push came to shove and
WE WERE DOWN TO FIGHT
We have seen the backstab blood
Most came and fuckin' went
They played the part
And they wore the right clothes
But they didn't know
What the fuck it meant
And I see it today
My backstabbing brothers
Believeing the lies
That they're telling each other
And I know I'll be here
When they're gone
'Cuz the New York Brotherhood
Is where my heart belongs
In rememberance of old New York
And to my friends
And the ones I've fought
A special place left in my heart
Those days are gone, man
But they're not forgot

And after touring with Judge and seeing the violence that happened at shows Mike goes into hiding pretty much. Dropping out. Thinking he caused a shitload of it due to his lyrics.

Band Rules however.

From All Ages

The ideas that i had were kind of negative at that point because i was a little pissed off the way Youth of Today was treated. ...people who were saying that we were these elitist, Nazi-type straight edge guys. Instead of trying to do something to prove that they were wrong, and that we weren't like that, I guess I went the full other circle and decided to give them a little bit of what they thought we were about.

... People had these perception of what I was about and what Judge was about. In some cases they might have ben a little bit right, but they just expected something different than Judge, or what Judge was. When we got there, there was a whole lot of fights everywhere. Things were just really taking their toll.

... because emotionally I couldn't deal with it anymore.
I thought my words were being twisted in weird ways and there wasn't anything I could say about it. If I tried, it just fell on deaf ears. ... I came back to Jersey and I hid out for a couple of years, didn't talk to anybody, didn't look anybody up, just tried to get my shit together.

From Anti-Matter Anthology

...There were about 200 kids, Nazis lined up across the street, sieg-heiling me and shit.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure I'd call 30 years of a distinct musical tradition certain bands. I'm just going to quote song lyrics for the rest of this thread

Given that from it's onset there's also been bands against violent behavior in the scene then yes, it does only apply to certain bands. I don't care if certain bands/scenes are dangerous, I respect that that is PART of hardcore's history, I just don't agree that HC en masse is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. I also don't like the perception that a lot of people have (and I'm not saying this applies to anyone here) that "hardcore is supposed to be dangerous" is a free pass to act like a dickhead. I get that people go off in the pit and it's awesome when you lose yourself in the energy of the music and people around you and maybe you'll get a punch or a kick by accident, but when people hurt others on purpose that is bullshit, not hardcore.

[Andrew]

The context of said violence is incredibly important

This.

[ian]

I'm not sure I'd call 30 years of a distinct musical tradition certain bands. I'm just going to quote song lyrics for the rest of this thread

Given that from it's onset there's also been bands against violent behavior in the scene then yes, it does only apply to certain bands. I don't care if certain bands/scenes are dangerous, I respect that that is PART of hardcore's history, I just don't agree that HC en masse is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. I also don't like the perception that a lot of people have (and I'm not saying this applies to anyone here) that "hardcore is supposed to be dangerous" is a free pass to act like a dickhead. I get that people go off in the pit and it's hella super duper when you lose yourself in the energy of the music and people around you and maybe you'll get a punch or a kick by accident, but when people hurt others on purpose that is bullshit, not hardcore.

i think thats totally legit. from what i have seen of lewd acts they arent going out of their way to purposely hurt people, they dont start fights, they arent bad dudes. they just go ape shit when they play. keep an eye open for flying cymbals (i got hit on the shoulder by one last time) and you have nothing to worry about. i feel like the bum wine should have been enough to get you stoked though.

[Andrew]

i feel like the bum wine should have been enough to get you stoked though.

[Hollow]

I'm not sure I'd call 30 years of a distinct musical tradition certain bands. I'm just going to quote song lyrics for the rest of this thread

Given that from it's onset there's also been bands against violent behavior in the scene then yes, it does only apply to certain bands. I don't care if certain bands/scenes are dangerous, I respect that that is PART of hardcore's history, I just don't agree that HC en masse is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. I also don't like the perception that a lot of people have (and I'm not saying this applies to anyone here) that "hardcore is supposed to be dangerous" is a free pass to act like a dickhead. I get that people go off in the pit and it's hella super duper when you lose yourself in the energy of the music and people around you and maybe you'll get a punch or a kick by accident, but when people hurt others on purpose that is bullshit, not hardcore.

I think it's important to make this distinction, as well. We're not supporting tough guy assholes beating the shit out of kids for looking/acting different. Lewd Acts don't do that, they simply lose their minds, and are willing to be responsible for the carnage that ensues. That's a ridiculously mature approach, and I'm willing to support them based on that alone, not just because they're an awesome band (they're an awesome band, by the way).

Getting fucking rowdy is perhaps a better way to put it than getting violent. Violence, in this discussion at least, should connote purposeful, negative aggression targeted towards specific people. Rowdiness is simply losing your mind, and people around you get hurt by accident. Lewd Acts get rowdy. Which, honestly, is EXACTLY what hardcore is about.

[ZACH ATTACK]

I want it back again
The spirit that WE ONCE HAD
Showing all these new hards
They're not SO FUCKIN' BAD
You and your crew
Would have never MADE IT THROUGH
The days we hung out
In 1982
The New York Brotherhood
I can't let go
The New York Brotherhood
where did they go?
We called it the Wolfpack
We called it UNITED BLOOD
Wore chains around our waists
And CONSTRUCTION GLOVES
Thompkins Sq. on a saturday night
See my brother, he's in a fight
They got him down, it's 3 on 1
10 of us show, GUESS WHO WON?
We hung out on 7th and A
Friends worked the door
We didn't have to pay
Boston came around one night
Push came to shove and
WE WERE DOWN TO FIGHT
We have seen the backstab blood
Most came and fuckin' went
They played the part
And they wore the right clothes
But they didn't know
What the fuck it meant
And I see it today
My backstabbing brothers
Believeing the lies
That they're telling each other
And I know I'll be here
When they're gone
'Cuz the New York Brotherhood
Is where my heart belongs
In rememberance of old New York
And to my friends
And the ones I've fought
A special place left in my heart
Those days are gone, man
But they're not forgot

And after touring with Judge and seeing the violence that happened at shows Mike goes into hiding pretty much. Dropping out. Thinking he caused a shitload of it due to his lyrics.

Band Rules however.

From All Ages

The ideas that i had were kind of negative at that point because i was a little pissed off the way Youth of Today was treated. ...people who were saying that we were these elitist, Nazi-type straight edge guys. Instead of trying to do something to prove that they were wrong, and that we weren't like that, I guess I went the full other circle and decided to give them a little bit of what they thought we were about.

... People had these perception of what I was about and what Judge was about. In some cases they might have ben a little bit right, but they just expected something different than Judge, or what Judge was. When we got there, there was a whole lot of fights everywhere. Things were just really taking their toll.

... because emotionally I couldn't deal with it anymore.
I thought my words were being twisted in weird ways and there wasn't anything I could say about it. If I tried, it just fell on deaf ears. ... I came back to Jersey and I hid out for a couple of years, didn't talk to anybody, didn't look anybody up, just tried to get my shit together.

From Anti-Matter Anthology

...There were about 200 kids, Nazis lined up across the street, sieg-heiling me and shit.

I'm well aware of Mike Judge going into hiding and feeling personally responcible for violence at shows, but that's kind of besides the point. What I'm getting at is that the same people that are here decrying Lewd Acts for their stage antics have no problem listening to a band like Judge who openly endorse violence as a means of problem solving in their lyrics. People keep mentioning that context is important so it kind of blows my mind that people are going to get but hurt over a band getting rowdy and kids getting caught in the cross fire but they'll listen to bands singing about violence for violence sake, and that have directly inspired violence for violence sake without batting an eye.

[ZACH ATTACK]

I'm not sure I'd call 30 years of a distinct musical tradition certain bands. I'm just going to quote song lyrics for the rest of this thread

Given that from it's onset there's also been bands against violent behavior in the scene then yes, it does only apply to certain bands. I don't care if certain bands/scenes are dangerous, I respect that that is PART of hardcore's history, I just don't agree that HC en masse is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. I also don't like the perception that a lot of people have (and I'm not saying this applies to anyone here) that "hardcore is supposed to be dangerous" is a free pass to act like a dickhead. I get that people go off in the pit and it's hella super duper when you lose yourself in the energy of the music and people around you and maybe you'll get a punch or a kick by accident, but when people hurt others on purpose that is bullshit, not hardcore.

I'm not saying that anybody who should have a liscence to act like a dick. I've been known to rail against punk who think that wearing studded leather gives them a liscence to be an ignorant prick. What I'm refering to is the unpredictablity of a hardcore show. We've all gone off in the pit. We've all hit people, and we've all gotten hit and we all seem to abide by a sort of unspoken rule that that's part of a hardcore show. And that's fine. That's the way it should be. What I don't under stand is why that's okay but when a band like Lewd Acts goes apeshit on stage and someone gets caught in the corss fire it's a dick move. In my mind that's kind of putting them on a pedastale and having one set of rules for regular kids at a show and some higher standard that the bands are supposed to live up to by virtue of playing a show.

[age of quarrel]

to me it goes alot deeper then mocking a kids hat, i cant speak for anyone else but personally what drew to hardcore is that the people i met at shows generally accepted me for who I am and it was where i could come and be safe from all the highschool shit that drove me to grugs etc. making some kid the center point for mockery at one of his first hardcore shows embodies the highschool cool kid mentallity which i feel is the anti thesis of what hardcore bands should be doing.lewd acts arent the only band that i feel do this either. and im not going to say everyone should be expected to walk on eggshells and fear opening there mouths for they may be burnt at the stake for saying something unkind because the bottom line is, the kid was wearing a stupid hat, but that does not mean he deserves to be the laughing stock of a hardcore show.

dont go after the kid in the silly hat, he may not fully "get it" yet, but hes on our side, focus your negativity on something worthwhile not some kid just looking for acceptance.

p.s. my problem isnt violence at shows my problem is clowns showboating and trying way to hard to be "edgy" and "in your face"

p.p.s. the thing about tyler willing to pay for damage etc really doesnt mean shit. at the vancouver show there was one mic and shaun went out of his way to tell tyler that there was only one mic and to treat it well because if he broke it the show couldnt go on, about thirty seconds later tyler is swining it around ten feet in the air hitting it into the floor and shit aswell, doing that after the promoter who has put his ass and his money on the line to give you a show and get you a place to stay and has fed isnt edgy, cool or punk, its fucking disrespectful. and paying for venue damage isnt shit when the whole is already in the wall and the venue owner doesnt want to let people do hardcore shows their, RIP casa

[Jordan f.]

as I already said, I have no problem with the violent part of their set. I would probably come to the show as I like the music. But like I said, I have lost my respect for the people in this band. I don't really have the urge to jam their records anymore.

I don't think people really read my post properly

[Hollow]

as I already said, I have no problem with the violent part of their set. I would probably come to the show as I like the music. But like I said, I have lost my respect for the people in this band. I don't really have the urge to jam their records anymore.

I don't think people really read my post properly

I'm just kind of confused now. What exactly did you mean?

[Jordan f.]

if he wants to throw a cymbal at me and go crazy I am all for it. Hardcore is a violent thing. The music they write is aggressive, they are going to be aggressive. No problems here for me!

calling out a kid at a show for dressing differently= "Hey fag, nice mohawk you fucking loser" to me. It's bullshit. Everyone here is a loser. We look out for each other. So why alienate a kid who is new to this? Let's take a kid who probably has low-self esteem (he is into hardcore) and make him feel even shittyier.

Trashing venues for the sake of being "punk" is dumb. At the Trial show they were playing in an important Seattle venue. It wasn't some bar, it was an all-ages venue. Something that is lacking in the NW right now. Getting venues shut down does nothing positive for hardcore. If Black Cloud was playing the troyler house and you punched a whole in the wall would it be ok? Sure you might pay for it but it's still causes problems for Troy. Paying for the things you've broken doesn't make it better. If it accidentally happens and you offer to pay, good for you but that is different.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure I'd call 30 years of a distinct musical tradition certain bands. I'm just going to quote song lyrics for the rest of this thread

Given that from it's onset there's also been bands against violent behavior in the scene then yes, it does only apply to certain bands. I don't care if certain bands/scenes are dangerous, I respect that that is PART of hardcore's history, I just don't agree that HC en masse is SUPPOSED TO BE DANGEROUS. I also don't like the perception that a lot of people have (and I'm not saying this applies to anyone here) that "hardcore is supposed to be dangerous" is a free pass to act like a dickhead. I get that people go off in the pit and it's hella super duper when you lose yourself in the energy of the music and people around you and maybe you'll get a punch or a kick by accident, but when people hurt others on purpose that is bullshit, not hardcore.

I'm not saying that anybody who should have a liscence to act like a dick. I've been known to rail against punk who think that wearing studded leather gives them a liscence to be an ignorant prick. What I'm refering to is the unpredictablity of a hardcore show. We've all gone off in the pit. We've all hit people, and we've all gotten hit and we all seem to abide by a sort of unspoken rule that that's part of a hardcore show. And that's fine. That's the way it should be. What I don't under stand is why that's okay but when a band like Lewd Acts goes apeshit on stage and someone gets caught in the corss fire it's a dick move. In my mind that's kind of putting them on a pedastale and having one set of rules for regular kids at a show and some higher standard that the bands are supposed to live up to by virtue of playing a show.

Nor did I say that's what you said, hence my saying it does not apply to anyone here. And we agree with each other for a bunch of our posts.

I don't hold bands to a different standard than other people at shows, but in my mind the damage that occurs in the pit should be accidental, Like "oops, I swung my arm and accidentally elbowed someone because I didn't see them", as opposed to "oops, I accidentally just picked up this cymbal and threw it at someone" or "oops, I accidentally picked up this speaker monitor and chucked it at someone". To me those are very different things. If you throw something heavy or sharp at another person you have to expect a much higher chance of hurting someone. I think that's lame behavior that live, aggressive music doesn't make ok. If that's your jam then go to a Lewd Acts show and let them hit you with a speaker box and be stoked. I won't do that because i don't think that's cool.

[Jordan f.]

Zach, I'd also like to give you props. Had I been complaining about them being to violent (which I wasn't) your post would have been a giant owning. I definitely lol'd

[Hollow]

if he wants to throw a cymbal at me and go crazy I am all for it. Hardcore is a violent thing. The music they write is aggressive, they are going to be aggressive. No problems here for me!

calling out a kid at a show for dressing differently= "Hey ONE TIME ME AND MY COUSIN TOUCHED WIENERS, nice mohawk you fucking loser" to me. It's bullshit. Everyone here is a loser. We look out for each other. So why alienate a kid who is new to this? Let's take a kid who probably has low-self esteem (he is into hardcore) and make him feel even shittyier.

Trashing venues for the sake of being "punk" is dumb. At the Trial show they were playing in an important Seattle venue. It wasn't some bar, it was an all-ages venue. Something that is lacking in the NW right now. Getting venues shut down does nothing positive for hardcore. If Black Cloud was playing the troyler house and you punched a whole in the wall would it be ok? Sure you might pay for it but it's still causes problems for Troy Lemberg, Honest Dude, 2009. Paying for the things you've broken doesn't make it better. If it accidentally happens and you offer to pay, good for you but that is different.

Eh, I kinda disagree with this, but that just comes down to our own personal differences when it comes to the philosophy of hardcore. I got/get made fun of a shitload by people who don't know me. Fuck 'em. If someone in a band did that, I'd probably be annoyed, but whatever. As I've said many a time, I didn't get into hardcore to be popular or liked. But again, that's me. I'll say that I respect this opinion more than the whole 'waaah they're too rowdy' argument, as I've said before, I actually think going apeshit, throwing things at the crowd, and losing your mind as completely as possible is within reason. I've never heard of Lewd Acts purposefully destroying a venue, other than third or fourth hand from self-righteous nineteen year old kids (no one who's posted here, don't worry about it) who I honestly don't take on gospel. But again, I'm a giant cynic who truly believes that nineteen year old kids don't know shit about shit. I am also an asshole. Whatevs.

OH and

If that's your jam then go to a Lewd Acts show and let them hit you with a speaker box and be stoked. I won't do that because i don't think that's cool.

This. In the end, that's the real thing that needs to be said. Respek.

[ian]

i think someone who books lewd acts probably has a basic idea of whats in store, that being said its not as thought they are actually destroying every venue they play. and i feel like if they pay for it there really is no harm done, unless theyre smashing your grandmothers urn or some shit. i doubt the microphone had a whole lot of sentimental value. they're putting on an amazing show, which is exactly what a good promoter wants. as far as the hat goes, i dont know, i didnt see the hat. i wasnt at the show. sounds shitty but i wasnt there, all i know is when ive hung out with them theyve been rad dudes. its weird to me this band is an issue but someone is still booking hit the bricks.

[ZACH ATTACK]

to me it goes alot deeper then mocking a kids hat, i cant speak for anyone else but personally what drew to hardcore is that the people i met at shows generally accepted me for who I am and it was where i could come and be safe from all the highschool shit that drove me to grugs etc. making some kid the center point for mockery at one of his first hardcore shows embodies the highschool cool kid mentallity which i feel is the anti thesis of what hardcore bands should be doing.lewd acts arent the only band that i feel do this either. and im not going to say everyone should be expected to walk on eggshells and fear opening there mouths for they may be burnt at the stake for saying something unkind because the bottom line is, the kid was wearing a stupid hat, but that does not mean he deserves to be the laughing stock of a hardcore show.


dont go after the kid in the silly hat, he may not fully "get it" yet, but hes on our side, focus your negativity on something worthwhile not some kid just looking for acceptance

I wasn't at the show so I don't know exactly what happend, but everybody get's a good natured ribbing every now and again and from the way your making this out is sounds like that's all it was except it got blown out of proportion. I'm sorry if this kid dropped out of hardcore because somebody in a band made fun of his hat, but if that's what caused him to drop out it probably has a lot more to do with a faliure by the community as a whole to create support networks than one dude in a band teasing him about his hat one time.

p.s. my problem isnt violence at shows my problem is clowns showboating and trying way to hard to be "edgy" and "in your face"

Hardcore has been edgy and in your face since day one. The whole reason hardcore started was because kids were feeling like punk rock got too bland. And further more, there are plenty of bands that take an edgy in your face stance and are celebrated for it. Earth Crisis comes to mind. It's perfectly acceptable for then to have lyrics condoning violence against people for making different life style choices to be edgy and combative. Trash Talk is pretty reknowned for the violence at their shows, and half of hardcore is swinging off their nuts. Henry Rollins gets giddy talking about punching people and he's considered and icon and an authority on punk and hardcore, but for some reason it's not cool when Lewd Acts does it and I can't figure out why.

p.p.s. the thing about tyler willing to pay for damage etc really doesnt mean shit. at the vancouver show there was one mic and shaun went out of his way to tell tyler that there was only one mic and to treat it well because if he broke it the show couldnt go on, about thirty seconds later tyler is swining it around ten feet in the air hitting it into the floor and shit aswell, doing that after the promoter who has put his ass and his money on the line to give you a show and get you a place to stay and has fed isnt edgy, cool or punk, its fucking disrespectful. and paying for venue damage isnt shit when the whole is already in the wall and the venue owner doesnt want to let people do hardcore shows their, RIP casa

When you book a band like Lewd Acts, or anybody really, you have to have an idea of what your getting yourself into so it's not really fair to get all upset when they do things that they're known for. I think Lords put it best: "You know who we are, right? You've heard the fucking record, right?" If Shaun didn't know who Lewd Acts were or what they were about and booked them anyway, that's his bad. If he did know what they were about and booke them anyways then I have to ask what was he expecting? If there's a hole in the venue wall and Tyler offered to pay to fix but the venue owner still wont allow hardcore shows, that sounds more like a case of the venue owner being a dick than Tyler being irresponsible.

[ian]

on a funny side note beat kids was banned from camas because of a hole in the wall.

[Rude Boy Puff]

I forgot this was the band that got casa shut down, I thought it was about dude trying to fight nick in van.

I miss that venue.

[Andrew]

its weird to me this band is an issue but someone is still booking hit the bricks.

Please explain.