heyjealousy wrote:my appologies in advance for typos and garbage grammarHollow wrote:xchadx wrote:While I agree spending that much on a Botch record is silly, lets not shit on people for spending their hard earned money on records in general. I'm gonna just quote Felix Havoc's post from the VLV board in response to people trying to give him/a seller shit for buying/selling rare hardcore records for top dollar (in this instance he's referencing the classic Antidote 7"), because I think he nails it on the fucking head why people spend money on classic records.HavocRecordsDistro posted this April 8th, 2011 @ 1:29:43 pm » quote#159
Let me make myself clear, early 80's hardcore is the most. I was a participant in this scene and it is a big part of my world. I don't care about re presses or MP3s, I must have the original artifact of the era, and I am willing to pay the price. That might be hard to understand for people who went from hip hop cds, to ipods, but for me it was records, records, records from the beginning. Early Dischord, Touch and Go and to a lesser extent Dangerhouse, represent to me the pinnacle of American DIY hardcore punk labels/style. These records are of a cultural import great enough to be hanging in art galleries and deserve to be treated with the respect they command. If that means they get treated like fine art or antique furniture, so be it. They have cultural value on that level.
For the record, I think that spending that kind of money on a painting or an old chair is fucking ridiculous too. I'm not naive, I understand that we live in a capitalist society (as much as I'd like not too), so I'm not gonna get on anyone's case for selling/buying something. I agree with Felix that old hardcore records have immense cultural value and should be treated with respect; I just don't agree that spending insane amounts of money on them is a good indicator of cultural value.
The amount of money spent on art and antiques is usually based on two things: perceived value and lack of availability. The perceived value of any work or antique is usually based on the fame of the artist/owner. For example, a painting that Hitler did went for $3.5 million about two years ago. Even removing Hitler's obvious faults, he was generally considered a hack artist at best. His colour choice was boring, his subjects cliche and his technique hackneyed. But his work went for $3.5 million. Why? What cultural value does that piece have, other than being paint slapped on canvas by one of history's greatest monsters? The perceived value of the work was based entirely on Hitlers infamy, and the fact that there are so few of his paintings left in existence.
Likewise, we have a Botch record going for $300. Why? They were a fantastic band, for sure, but they weren't nearly as influential as other bands of the same era. Here, we have a Jane Doe tour press going for less than a hundred bucks, and that band and that album were ten times as influential as Botch's American Nervosa. http://shop.ebay.ca/i.html?_kw=Converge ... &_kw=press This Botch record isn't going for $300 because of how amazing Botch is, but because they're regaining popularity right now, and there are so few copies of this record left for sale.
Whoever is buying this record isn't buying it for the music, they're buying it for the right to say they bought it.
I've definitely commodified vinyl myself (anyone hearing me brag endlessly about my Jane Doe OP is probably typing a furious response right now), and I love to collect vinyl, but there has to be a middle ground. We shouldn't be losing sight of the fact that the music is where the cultural value is truly at, and that the vinyl is a secondary product of said music. When you start paying that much for something, I believe you need to really think about why you're doing it and what you're adding to (or taking away from) the culture and community by spending that kind of money.
Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, as someone who couldn't afford to buy anything other than used punk/metal cd's at Sam Goody as a kid, fuck that self righteous "hip hop CD's to ipods" line. Anyone can get into any music through whatever format they want. Sure, I have my preferred formats for my own reasons (I'm a vinyl/tape man myself) but if some kid gets into hardcore or punk or metal or whatever by downloading an album off a blog, let him. At least he's getting into the music.
I understand most of what you are saying, but I dont think the vinyl is secondary to the music, it is the format that carries the music. you cant have a painting without the canvas(dont make me get all ray cappo anti science on your ass). the hard format of the music is critical. I have made so many record purchases not because I knew the band but because the aesthetic of the product paid homage to the layouts of great bands before. it doesnt always work but there are records you can get a reasonable judgement from the record. I love looking at the records,labels, inserts and covers as I listen to them. buying records would not be as enjoyable if every record came with a blank cover and labels with the bands name printed on it in comic sans. hell the suppression swing lp is one of my favourite Mike hartsfield related releases and I had never heard them before I bought it. it just looked like it would be a good hardcore record.
Hey, I totally get this and even agree with you on a lot of it. I love the aesthetic of a good record. But I still believe that the music is what's important, and that when you commodify records to that point, the music has become secondary (especially when you can get said music for cheaper on CD or download) and it's all about the fact that "OMG I OWN AN ORIGINAL PRESS OF AMERICAN NERVOSA!!!!!"
Which, again, I've done.
But it's not a good thing.
I would definitely disagree with the "turds" remark, but I remember when I was able to get Pg. 99's Document #5 by downloading it and man that was sweet. That record goes for way too much now a day's for me to be able to afford it.p.s. I remember the first time I downloaded age of quarrel. the cd/ipod generation thing is a double edge sword, it makes it easier for turds to seek out these legendary records and kind of spoils the thrill of the hunt. but it also makes it easier for people to track down something they have been dying to hear that was pressed /300 20 years ago in europe.
I can back this statement.TL/DR: HARDCORE RULES AND I LIKE RECORDS.
