Sound and Fury 2011

[Hollow]

[patvoytko]

yo whats up, my names pat. i play guitar in agitator.

i had a friend link me to this thread and there's a few things i'd like to clear up...

first off, let me say that its not my place to interpret martys lyrics for you; ultimately you can think and say what you want about them. im not here to try and change anyones minds about our band.

the song 'diseased' was written about a specific situation and a specific person and in no way a statement about the entire female gender. obviously we dont wish 'date rape' upon anyone or anything retarded.

if 'enter vice lords' wasnt your bag, our new record "walls closing in" will be out on six feet under records by the end of the month - maybe you'll like the lyrics on that one

look forward to seeing some of you at sound & fury

pat/agitator

However, I have lines and rape is one of them. Even wishing it on one person, or telling one woman that she brought it on herself (which is how I took those lyrics) is pretty disgusting to me. People do stupid things, and quite often deal with consequences that are wholly their fault. Rape is not a consequence. Rape is a violent, soul crushing act, and I don't really care if a girl was drinking; if she (or he, rape does happen to men too) gets roofied the only person responsible is the rapist.

just for clarification the lines in the song dealing with date rape are suppose to be a forewarning to the possible repercussions of said persons irresponsible/dangerous lifestyle. "you'll lose your ability to think.." is suppose to be saying this could possibly happen to you. kind of like if you play with fire you might get burned type of deal.

i appreciate the rational discussion.

pat/agitator

Oh, I totally understand that. I just think it's wrong. Let me try it this way: lets say you own a car and a bike. You have the choice to use either mode of transportation, but today you decide to ride your bike. Now, there are certainly risks you're taking by riding a bike. You could be hit by a driver that wasn't paying attention, you could hit a rock and fly over the handle bars, your front wheel could crumple and send you over the handlebars, etc. So, you go out with those risks in mind, and avoid them to your best ability. But halfway to your destination, a driver who hates cyclists speeds up and purposefully hits you, then steals your wallet. Now, is it your fault that you were run down by this driver? Using the logic ascribed in the song, yes it is. You decided to ride your bike, you knew the risks going into it, etc. etc. etc. I happen to think that the driver is at fault. You riding a bike is not asking to be hit by a car. A girl that dresses "slutty" and drinks is not asking to be raped.

If you wrote a song about a girl that goes out drinking, drinks too much, throws up all over her best friends couch and then loses that friend, then you would have a song about the consequences you run by drinking too much. But as I stated before, rape isn't a consequence. Men who take advantage of a woman while drunk are doing just that; taking advantage.

Basically, it's not the responsibility of the woman to not be raped, it's the responsibility of men to know not to rape someone.

And no thanks necessary on the subject of rational discussion. I'm more than happy to talk to someone about views I disagree with. Screaming at each other won't help anything, and you've shown a lot of respect to me and the rest of our community. It's nothing at all to return the favour.

while in my opinion your analogy on the dangers of bicycle riding isn't even on the same plane of existence as to what the lyrics in diseased are about, we could literally go back and forth for the next few weeks on it and it wouldn't change anything haha

i wanted to respond one more time to let you know that i appreciate what you wrote- i would feel disrespected if i took the time to respond to someone and wasnt acknowledged

keith thank you for the kind words



pat/agitator

[ebony]

yea its a stupid song, get over it

I don't think there is anything irrational about the discussion at hand, it is a part of anyone's free will to debate and be involved in a conversation involving their opinions on any type of subject matter. If Willa wants to get over it he will, he doesn't need you pointing it out. I personally am very pleased at his response to the whlole thing and I am really suprised at myself for having been able to hold back and keep my mouth shut after reading all of it. In my opinion, nobody has blown anything too far out.

[Hollow]

yo whats up, my names pat. i play guitar in agitator.

i had a friend link me to this thread and there's a few things i'd like to clear up...

first off, let me say that its not my place to interpret martys lyrics for you; ultimately you can think and say what you want about them. im not here to try and change anyones minds about our band.

the song 'diseased' was written about a specific situation and a specific person and in no way a statement about the entire female gender. obviously we dont wish 'date rape' upon anyone or anything retarded.

if 'enter vice lords' wasnt your bag, our new record "walls closing in" will be out on six feet under records by the end of the month - maybe you'll like the lyrics on that one

look forward to seeing some of you at sound & fury

pat/agitator

However, I have lines and rape is one of them. Even wishing it on one person, or telling one woman that she brought it on herself (which is how I took those lyrics) is pretty disgusting to me. People do stupid things, and quite often deal with consequences that are wholly their fault. Rape is not a consequence. Rape is a violent, soul crushing act, and I don't really care if a girl was drinking; if she (or he, rape does happen to men too) gets roofied the only person responsible is the rapist.

just for clarification the lines in the song dealing with date rape are suppose to be a forewarning to the possible repercussions of said persons irresponsible/dangerous lifestyle. "you'll lose your ability to think.." is suppose to be saying this could possibly happen to you. kind of like if you play with fire you might get burned type of deal.

i appreciate the rational discussion.

pat/agitator

Oh, I totally understand that. I just think it's wrong. Let me try it this way: lets say you own a car and a bike. You have the choice to use either mode of transportation, but today you decide to ride your bike. Now, there are certainly risks you're taking by riding a bike. You could be hit by a driver that wasn't paying attention, you could hit a rock and fly over the handle bars, your front wheel could crumple and send you over the handlebars, etc. So, you go out with those risks in mind, and avoid them to your best ability. But halfway to your destination, a driver who hates cyclists speeds up and purposefully hits you, then steals your wallet. Now, is it your fault that you were run down by this driver? Using the logic ascribed in the song, yes it is. You decided to ride your bike, you knew the risks going into it, etc. etc. etc. I happen to think that the driver is at fault. You riding a bike is not asking to be hit by a car. A girl that dresses "slutty" and drinks is not asking to be raped.

If you wrote a song about a girl that goes out drinking, drinks too much, throws up all over her best friends couch and then loses that friend, then you would have a song about the consequences you run by drinking too much. But as I stated before, rape isn't a consequence. Men who take advantage of a woman while drunk are doing just that; taking advantage.

Basically, it's not the responsibility of the woman to not be raped, it's the responsibility of men to know not to rape someone.

And no thanks necessary on the subject of rational discussion. I'm more than happy to talk to someone about views I disagree with. Screaming at each other won't help anything, and you've shown a lot of respect to me and the rest of our community. It's nothing at all to return the favour.

while in my opinion your analogy on the dangers of bicycle riding isn't even on the same plane of existence as to what the lyrics in diseased are about, we could literally go back and forth for the next few weeks on it and it wouldn't change anything haha

i wanted to respond one more time to let you know that i appreciate what you wrote- i would feel disrespected if i took the time to respond to someone and wasnt acknowledged

keith thank you for the kind words



pat/agitator

Haha, fair enough. Thanks for responding man, I'm more than happy to let it drop. My point's been made, lets move on.

This thread is now about how awesome Off! is. Seriously, that band rips.

[Hollow]

yea its a stupid song, get over it

I don't think there is anything irrational about the discussion at hand, it is a part of anyone's free will to debate and be involved in a conversation involving their opinions on any type of subject matter. If Willa wants to get over it he will, he doesn't need you pointing it out. I personally am very pleased at his response to the whlole thing and I am really suprised at myself for having been able to hold back and keep my mouth shut after reading all of it. In my opinion, nobody has blown anything too far out.

We're an internet tag team. I'll bring the luchador masks and beer.

[ebony]

yea its a stupid song, get over it

I don't think there is anything irrational about the discussion at hand, it is a part of anyone's free will to debate and be involved in a conversation involving their opinions on any type of subject matter. If Willa wants to get over it he will, he doesn't need you pointing it out. I personally am very pleased at his response to the whlole thing and I am really suprised at myself for having been able to hold back and keep my mouth shut after reading all of it. In my opinion, nobody has blown anything too far out.

We're an internet tag team. I'll bring the luchador masks and beer.

Im down with both of those things. Let's do it.

[Rude Boy Puff]

Do I think the comment “women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized” is accurate? No, I understand rape is not usually about what the victim is wearing. The issue at hand here is respect. This officer made disrespectful remarks about sluts because he does not respect them and Im not sure what planet you live on if you think that the way you dress would not have an effect on how somebody views you. Men are not allowed to enter downtown bars wearing tap out and other fight gear, but shouldn't they be allowed to wear "whatever they want" and that list could go on all day. The officer in the future should keep his personal opinion at home when addressing the public he's sworn to protect, but other than that its just that a lack of respect. Making this the lynch pin of some movement based around respect is laughable.

The issue isn't whether or not if the way one dresses influences the way people view you. It's not against the law to make assumptions based on superficial observations. The issue is public servants making apologies for sex offenders and telling women to cover up if they don't want to get raped instead of telling men not to rape people. Bars downtown are private enterprises and perfectly within their rights to have a dress code, and if this were an issue of some lady trying to get into a bar with a dress code and claiming discrimination I'd agree with you, but that isn't the issue at hand. Section 7 of the charter clearly states that "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice," not that "everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person so long as their skirt reaches the ends of their fingertips." Comments like officer in Toronto, or the judge in Winnipeg made show either a complete lack of respect for women or complete lack of understanding of the fundamental legal principles behind our society. Neither are good and both are completely worthy of the outrage their receiving. I also think it's a little short sighted to call this the lynch pin of the feminist movement. Feminism has existed for hundreds of years and the safety of women has always been an issue. It seems like you're getting hung up on the current events aspect and missing the larger historical theme of women being victimized and then blamed for their own victimization. Mini-skirts might be in poor taste, but not so much as treating them as an open invitation for a quickie.

It's just hard to grasp how you could pick apart my post so much and still miss the mark completely. First I at no point condoned the comments made by the Toronto police so there is no need to further patronize me with what he should have and should not have said. I have no interest in debating our rights and freedoms as to my best knowledge the Toronto Police are still handling sex crimes to the best of their ability, just let me know when they stop and we can bring it up. The comments demonstrate a lack of respect, but I am not convinced that they can be construed as "blaming the victim." The point I made was about respect taking something so small and aggrandizing it into the broad world of sexual violence is about as cheap as it gets. Dressing like a slut is not going to get you any respect from me and using it get headlines to address that broad world of sexual violence is just as fucked. As for the case in Winnipeg I am really stumped it's really hard for someone who knows little about the case to make judgement, it's an instance I miss the high horse I once sat on where all sex offenders should just be shot, but I learned the world is shades of grey and black where a people will lie about being raped. Its hard not to be cynical sometimes. What I do know is he was convicted of rape, but based on the evidence of the crime his sentence was commuted to house arrest. Again I would have to know a lot more about what happened, as well as those involved and really so would you. Finally the "movement" I'm referring to is the Slut Walk not the feminist movement, but thank you for the history lesson.

Its like when that young lady tried to make an issue of not being allowed to board a sky train in Vancouver for her "fuck yoga" pin about free speech. People who skimmed that headline were outraged he had no right and what not and he didn't. What you had to actually read was that the only reason transit police were talking to her in the first place was that she didn't have a $2.50 train ticket.

Really dude? You think that putting the blam on rape victims because of how they dressed is the same as some lady who didn't want to pay her sky train ticket. This has to be a joke.

No joke. The comparison is based on shock headlines, but the more you try to paint me a rapist sympathizer the funnier it gets.

[Fish]

new announcement:

Advent
Calculator
Cornered
Cruel Hand
Dead End Path
Death Threat
Doubledealer
Expire
Low Places
Minority Unit
Minus
Mongoloids
New Morality
Noose
Not Sorry
Oblivion
Over My Dead Body
Rock Bottom
Run With the Hunted
Seahaven
Secret People
Settle For Less
Suburban Scum
The Greenery
The Wrath
Trial
Twitching Tounges
Wrong Answer
Xibalba

[tylerp]

would see Calculator, maybe Trial

[Jordan f.]

YES!

[keith.]

Rock Bottom rule

[Human-Demise]

Rock Bottom rule

yep. who going to this again. they're getting money to bring back rockbottom shirts.

[Jordan f.]

16 year old me is gonna rage during Death Threat.

Cause' we've got respect for each other...I treat my mother fucking friends... LIKE BROTHERS

Edit: Alexis, hit me up closer to the show. I will see what I can do

[xchadx]

.

[dalamar501]

There are some pretty sweet bands in the lineup this year! If I wasn't going to Rain Fest, Disneyland, and React Showcase I'd be hitting this up.

Jordan, I may need to throw you some money in advance to grab me a Minority Unit record/shirt (assuming they've got something more than the demo by that point).

CHAD FIRST DAY OF RAINFEST HANGS YES?

[xchadx]

.

[Jordan f.]

Hit me up closer to the show and we will figure something out!

[patvoytko]

theres going to be a third announcement when that timer counts down- i dont know who it is though
i like the second announcement though, i think it will be a great time

[Jordan f.]

theres going to be a third announcement when that timer counts down- i dont know who it is though
i like the second announcement though, i think it will be a great time

I'm guessing it's just like 4-5bands that weren't able to confirm just yet. Doubt any more "big" bands will be announced but either way there are some really good current bands, some reunion bands I will go crazy for, a bunch of new bands I've never heard of and it's in sunny fucking California with a bunch of friends. Sounds like a good fest to me.

[Jordan f.]

OVER...MY...DEAD....OVER MY DEAD BODY!