ATTN: Willa

[grind/bro]

I just wanna point out how hella super duper it is that "Drama" in this town involves intelligent discourse and a respect for other people's ideas/ideals. If I were still in Phoenix, someone would have threatened to stab someone else by now.

Thats it Willa.

[ebony]

Sorry on behalf of vancouver. Guilty of being wiggers in the parking lot.

this is true, and i do heart you many times uncle puff. there are a select few bros in van that will step off when they are asked, and i appreciate that.

[Hollow]

I just wanna point out how hella super duper it is that "Drama" in this town involves intelligent discourse and a respect for other people's ideas/ideals. If I were still in Phoenix, someone would have threatened to stab someone else by now.

damn my barely grade 12 education.

Oh, sorry. Translation from pretentious-speak: everyones being respectful and listening to everyone else. I dig.

[ebony]

I just wanna point out how hella super duper it is that "Drama" in this town involves intelligent discourse and a respect for other people's ideas/ideals. If I were still in Phoenix, someone would have threatened to stab someone else by now.

damn my barely grade 12 education.

Oh, sorry. Translation from pretentious-speak: everyones being respectful and listening to everyone else. I dig.

no apologies. i can't hold you reasponsible for my light headedness. after all, where would i be in this world if you have never patted me on the head for being confused at something you have said.
*heart

[age of quarrel]

2 quick things before bed:
1. the whole "you should know what your getting yourself into" when booking lewd acts thing... shut up, citrus wasnt doing the show for lewd acts, it was for a 108 show and unfortunatley lewd acts was apart of the package. and as puff mentioned i forgot about the singer being on the verge of fighting nick when nick hadnt done anything at all to provoke him... chalk up another strioke against lewd acts please

2. as for chris being a women beater, elida got hit by a different chris, all an accident. many people took hits that set and sadly elida got the worst of it. unless you were there dont point the woman beating finger.

[ZACH ATTACK]

Don't tell me to shut up. I'm being perfectly respectful to you and I only ask that you do the same to same to me.

Nobody is forcing anybody to book any shows. If you think a band on a package tour is a liability then don't book the package tour. It sucks but that's life. Just like it sucks when promoters don't think ahead and try to run a show with only one mic, but again, that's life.
Bottom line, if you don't like Lewd Acts, don't go to their shows. Nobody is putting a gun to anybody's head and forcing them to support something they don't want to. I'm just trying to figure why it's okay for some bands to behave like absolute pricks, take absolutely no responsibility for it and be celebrated for it, but it's not okay for Lewd Acts to do more or less the same thing with the only difference being that they take responsibility for their actions. Why is it okay for Dwid for drop N bombs on stage like it ain't no thang and drive around Tijuana destroying everything in sight, or why it's okay for Madball to be a part of a crew that's renowned for selling drugs and all the violence that goes along with that or why it's okay for Converge to battle axe people with their guitars or why it's okay for Colin of Arabia to swing chains around in a mosh pit but it's not okay for Tyler make fun of a kids hat and pay to fix any damages out of his own pocket? That's all I'm asking and I don't think it's an unreasonable question. Maybe you do think it's an unreasonable question in which case maybe you could just explain whats so unreasonable about it instead of getting beligerant.

Now here's a video of Henry Rollins berating some poor kid just trying to interview him and another one of him beating up on some dude in the crowd, so we can all shun him now too.

[grind/bro]

That video is awesome and incredibly awkward all at once.

[ZACH ATTACK]

I know, and that's why I love it. But I also tend to doubt that that kid had much of a good time and he probably wasn't too stoaked on punk rock afterwards.

[grind/bro]

I think he probably just wasnt stoked on Rollins.

[ZACH ATTACK]

Well really I think it depends on a lot of things and it isn't as simple as some dude in a band said mean things so the kid dropped out. I don't know if he did or not. Really the only point I'm trying to make is that if we're going to call out a guy in a marginally well known hardcore band for making fun of some kids hat, this is probably also worth discussing when venerated icons behave in the same manner.

[Andrew]

I'm just trying to figure why it's okay for some bands to behave like absolute pricks, take absolutely no responsibility for it and be celebrated for it, but it's not okay for Lewd Acts

It's not OK. I don't see where anyone said it was OK.

What's the story on Converge hitting someone with their guitar?

[Hollow]

2 quick things before bed:
1. the whole "you should know what your getting yourself into" when booking lewd acts thing... shut up, citrus wasnt doing the show for lewd acts, it was for a 108 show and unfortunatley lewd acts was apart of the package. and as puff mentioned i forgot about the singer being on the verge of fighting nick when nick hadnt done anything at all to provoke him... chalk up another strioke against lewd acts please

Speaking as someone who has been promoting for quite a while, yes, actually, the promoter is wholly responsible for what happens, and therefore should know what they're getting into when they book a show. If you are promoting shows, you need to deal with four seperate and distinct facts: 1. you will lose money. 2. At least one kid, usually many more, is not going to enjoy him/herself. 3. Something will get broken. 4. Someone will probably get hurt. If you can't deal with these very plain facts, don't promote. This isn't even simply hardcore we're talking about, I have friends who promote rock/metal/hip hop and they all agree on these facts. It's what happens to promoters.

2. as for chris being a women beater, elida got hit by a different chris, all an accident. many people took hits that set and sadly elida got the worst of it. unless you were there dont point the woman beating finger.

No one said that. At all. What DID get said is that there was an erroneous rumour going around that he did, and I immediately squashed it. So lets let that die. NOW.

I've sent you a PM. I'd suggest you read it.

Andrew, I will agree that that was a touch hyperbolic, but the gist of the point was well made. There are bands that have done truly horrible things, and are then canonized, while other bands do fairly bad things and are treated like lepers for it. And check out Youtube for video from The Fest where a riot started during a Converge set, and the bass player battle axed a security guard with his bass. Totally called for, I think I would have done the same thing, but it goes to the point that some bands seem capable of doing anything they want and get away with it, and other bands get called out for it. It's a stupid double standard, and needs to end.

[Jordan f.]

not gonna lie, I thought this thread would have died awhile ago....

[grind/bro]

not gonna lie, I thought this thread would have died awhile ago....

It was quite the talk at the Simpson/Greene residence!

[Rude Boy Puff]

Don't tell me to shut up. I'm being perfectly respectful to you and I only ask that you do the same to same to me.

Nobody is forcing anybody to book any shows. If you think a band on a package tour is a liability then don't book the package tour. It sucks but that's life. Just like it sucks when promoters don't think ahead and try to run a show with only one mic, but again, that's life.
Bottom line, if you don't like Lewd Acts, don't go to their shows. Nobody is putting a gun to anybody's head and forcing them to support something they don't want to. I'm just trying to figure why it's okay for some bands to behave like absolute pricks, take absolutely no responsibility for it and be celebrated for it, but it's not okay for Lewd Acts to do more or less the same thing with the only difference being that they take responsibility for their actions. Why is it okay for Dwid for drop N bombs on stage like it ain't no thang and drive around Tijuana destroying everything in sight, or why it's okay for Madball to be a part of a crew that's renowned for selling drugs and all the violence that goes along with that or why it's okay for Converge to battle axe people with their guitars or why it's okay for Colin of Arabia to swing chains around in a mosh pit but it's not okay for Tyler make fun of a kids hat and pay to fix any damages out of his own pocket? That's all I'm asking and I don't think it's an unreasonable question. Maybe you do think it's an unreasonable question in which case maybe you could just explain whats so unreasonable about it instead of getting beligerant.

Converge's bass player swinging his bass at a bouncer was addressing the issue of you fuck with the kids you fuck with ALL THE KIDS. Backed
Its not ok for Dwid to use the N bomb on stage and thats why there are like 3 places in North America they are still allowed to play at. and until 5 minutes ago when the B9 board said it was essential you liked them, mostly because Kris Mission bought their Tshirt rights the world minus Europe hated them.
Members of madball have been shot, stabbed , and put in prison. Fair concequence for a life of crime.
As for COA swinging a chain in the pit Boston shows are from my experience big on dick showing contests and its a little scary but no one fucks with gear or venue walls.
Those videos are proof enough why Rollins is acting like a dick.

I dont understand this notion that a promoter is obligated to take it in the ass for putting their money up for a show. This isnt Live Nation who would have put the money up for any of the bands you mentioned in this post. Its a dude who loves hardcore. You can call me out because I wasnt there and I didnt see this first hand but my source is good as first hand. As well as I mentioned are the people that love when a show gets out of hand. Had he have hit nick I think theyre experience touring in the northwest would be extremely different. Glad that nothing happened.

These are friends of austins and I respect that and I respect they are more than likely great people and a great band, but last couple times they came through they acted like fools and people havent forgotten.

[Rude Boy Puff]

PS GG Allin sucks balls

[KYLESTYLE]

game, set, match.

i see both sides of this debate, but really, when it comes down to it, it's a question of "will someone in Victoria book lewd acts" and the answer is 'yes'. the next question is, "will everyone in this message board go?" the answer to that is 'probably not'. everything else is a whole other debate that is quite fascinating, but, ultimately, slightly pointless.

However, everything is pointless so I'll indulge.

Within the context of the band, Lewd Acts, not the discussion of violence in hardcore, all i know is that they stayed with Jodi and Leo last time and they were 'rad dudes'. Also, they rage when they play, which is pretty sweet to see, though, can be scary. At least there is a semblance of passion left in music, right (also, it should be stated that there is a fine line between passion and asshole)? But on the violence in music topic, overall, I'm pretty against it and i find it generally asinine. I don't know Lewd Acts as people and I haven't seen them live so i don't know if they fit in this category or not, but I'd still go to their show because I'm a sheep, all my friends like them, and i generally go to most shows since they're so seldom these days.

[age of quarrel]

first things first, zach telling you to shut up was out of line and I appologize.

yes shows should have more than one mic, I think one may have already died or maybe a second mic was just oerlokked, regargdless when there is only one mic you dont have the right to fuck it up just because the promoter should have had an extra. this thread is really going in circles so I think I'm pretty well done with it. the bottom line is I dont like how this band operates and i have spoken to members of this band via the internet regarding my distaste for how they behave. if you really want to talk to me more about the topic pm me or speak to me in person. because this thread is just fueling my case of early onset bitter old man syndrome.

Willa, check your pm's/I love you

[Andrew]

Andrew, I will agree that that was a touch hyperbolic, but the gist of the point was well made. There are bands that have done truly horrible things, and are then canonized, while other bands do fairly bad things and are treated like lepers for it. And check out Youtube for video from The Fest where a riot started during a Converge set, and the bass player battle axed a security guard with his bass. Totally called for, I think I would have done the same thing, but it goes to the point that some bands seem capable of doing anything they want and get away with it, and other bands get called out for it. It's a stupid double standard, and needs to end.

I agree that double standards in hardcore do suck and they are pretty common, but you can't assume everyone here is practicing that double standard when it comes to Lewd Acts. And you have to see the difference between what the bassist in Converge did and what Lewd Acts do. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, I'm saying the circumstances are apples and oranges.
The difference with this too is no one knows if people would have negative opinions of some of these canonized bands if they also had personal experiences with them behaving badly. I'm sure somewhere out there, there are guys who love Lewd Acts and like Earth Crisis or Integrity because they had face to face bad experiences with those bands and not Lewd Acts. Enjoying a record made by a band you have no personal experience with but who have a bad rep doesn't obligate you to eat crow if you have a bad experience with a band at a show.

[canon.docre]

This one time I saw the locust and they threw meat at the audience during Dillenger Escape Plan's set. I think those guys are fucking losers now. It was a totally limp-wristed retaliation against Dillenger Escape Plan, who owned the locust by stripping naked, putting on locust masks, taping their dicks between their legs and running around on stage humping everything and everyone while the locust tried to finish their set.

Also I saw hierophant once and thought Colin was going to kill everyone with his bass and it reminded me of first seeing the video for under the running board. I .. stood back. lol.

I've never thought violence was cool. At the same time, its not like I "don't believe in violence" so I'm not really developing hatred for bands that act exactly like the bands they are ripping off. Violence doesn't define hardcore, just like throwing down, not drinking, being positive or being negative doesn't define hardcore, but I feel it is a waste of time to get your head up your ass trying to tell other people how to act. You can die crossing the street when you have the walk signal; let's not focus on trying to dilute the experience of a hardcore show.

At least when goatsblood started throwing equipment, it was at each other and on top of themselves.