How Important Is Lyrical Content 4 U?

[grind/bro]

Willa and I were discussing this the other day. How important is an artists lyrical content to you? Do you specifically not listen to bands that you disagree with? Do you only listen to bands that only talk about straight-edge/don't talk about politics/like cops/etc... Are there exceptions?

Personally, I try to put the music before the lyrics. Lyrics are usually icing on the cake if I agree with them. There are exceptions, I don't think any NS bands form with a sole idea to make well-crafted albums, but rather to just push an agenda. It's less of disagreeing with the lyrics for them (which, lord, is laughable) more than it is that they don't take themselves as a real "band" and push out just any old recording that's sole purpose is to turn dumb teenagers onto NS. I really don't even "like" National Socialist bands, but find them kind of sad, pathetic and boring, co-opting international music styles (most of which took influence from tons of other cultures from throughout the globe). Then again I own some records that have questionable politics, that I really don't think there's an underlying agenda behind. It can be hard to tell. If someone says on a record "Now is the time to kill followers of christ" I can be like LOL YA XTIANS 666 CORPSEPAINTED SATANS VAGINAL BLOOD, but then when it's followed by "Preachers of the jewish faith must also meet their death" I get a bit squeamish. I like Rabbis. There are certain lines I'm not sure about, grey-to-black zones.

I do listen to Severed Head of State though and they are rabid about killing cops. I don't think cops should be "killed" (sorry Conrad). Murder is a moral no-no for me/the world. I don't think anything of these kind of lyrics though. Shouldn't I find them objectionable? Cops have mothers, fathers, children, wives, husbands and little doggies. Really I should be finding the calling for murder of anyone regardless of who they are objectionable. But I don't take it that seriously. Maybe I'm a little biased because I am a big lefty? I'll let extremist left wing bands slide? Maybe. Really though, I shouldn't let the lyrical content bother me. I do think some right-wing ideologies can be argued intelligently, and I'm willing to support people's choice and matter in that. It's about freedom of expression. Just because someone is on the righty side doesn't make them an abhorrent person. It's just their view.

Also, some people in the past (not very smart ones mind you) have told me that I shouldn't be listening to certain rap artists based on their misogyny. Then they go and listen to Motley Crue or some other equally "sexist" rock band. Kind of ironic. They didn't really bring up the use of the word "n!gga" which I still find sort of questionable.

Really though we all listen to music that is "extreme". Hardcore is extreme punk rock. Metal is extreme rock music. I expect people with extreme values and ethics to sometimes be a bit outspoken.

Thoughts?

[Hollow]

The way I look at it is thus:

If a band has lyrical content that I agree with, awesome. If they have lyrical content that's just sorta apathetic (a lot of posi bands are this way for me), I can still listen to the band, although I tend not to be as into them as I would be with other bands with better lyrical content (for example, Have Hearts first album is TERRIBLE lyrically, but amazing musically. Their second album shows a huge improvement/maturity in regards to his lyrics, but the music is stale. I like both equally, but Have Heart is far from my favorite band). If they have lyrics I find morally objectionable, I will not deny their right to exist/espouse said lyrics, but I won't support the band, and if the lyrics are objectionable enough, I may speak out against them (your example of NS bands is a good one. They have the right to say what they say, I have the right to confront them and call them out on it).

There are of course grey areas (your Severed Head of State example is a good one) and for sure I have bands I listen to that have questionable lyrics (Death in June is a good example of this).

I guess the best i can come up with is this: take it case by case, figure out where your personal lines are, and stay true to those. If, like Nick, you can listen to and enjoy an NSBM band for their music, but eschew their lyrics, then good on ya. Me, I can't do that. It's different for everyone.

[ian]

i dont have a problem listening to music with questionable lyrics in my headphones or on my computer or the like, but i imagine there could be some bands i wouldnt support or pay to see live though i cant think of any at the moment. i think lyrics generally should be completely unique to the writer, and should express whatever they personally want to express, just like their own thoughts, people project themselves through music. no ones forcing me to listen to their music or buy their records, and if i do listen to their songs i dont have to change the way i think to the way they think, its just another opinion, and i think its good to hear as many opinions as possible. on that note i'm a musician, not a poet. so when i write lyrics i tend to aim for the more sing along style than the overly opinionated. i can understand that a person could see it the opposite. thats just me.

[Hollow]

on that note i'm a musician, not a poet.

See, this may be why I have such a strong opinion on lyrics; I'm a writer, not a musician. I think that where you come from artistically can change how you view an artists work.

[ian]

on that note i'm a musician, not a poet.

See, this may be why I have such a strong opinion on lyrics; I'm a writer, not a musician. I think that where you come from artistically can change how you view an artists work.

totally. the way i write is a lot more about the rhythm and shape of the word. probably why i dont take other artists lyrics as literally and seriously as someone else might.

[Andrew]

Lyrical content is important to me insofar as if a band I like has good lyrics I like them even more and appreciate the good lyrics of some bands I'm less enthused about musically. I can accept dumb but harmless lyrics in the right context, but I don't listen to any bands with lyrics with like messages in them.

[ian]

i really like lyrics that are ifnothing else unique though. im pretty fucking sick of hearing the "shows are a place where you can be your self blah blah friends blah blah dont judge someone on how they dress blah blah positive energy blah blah straight edge blah unity blah blah lets fucking move this shit." shtick from some asshole wearing a pro fit and basketball shorts who makes fun of 'indie kids' and only listens to bands with college lettering on their t shirts.

[ZACH ATTACK]

I just wrote an awesome reply to this thread, then the board navigated away from itself for some reason. I'm not typing it again. All I'm saying is that I don't live my life according to song lyrics, so I couldn't care less about lyrical content. I'll listen to anything as long as it's good and it has passion. Given that we live in an age where were can download any music we want for free at the drop of a hat I don't see any reason to not listen to a band because they have sketchy lyrics. I'm not telling little kids to listen to Skrewdriver, and the idea of some kid randomly finding my ipod, and then randomly stumbling across One Life Crew and then deciding to go and beat up a bunch of immigrants because Mean Steve told them too is so unlikely that it's not even worth worrying about. Boring musical arrangements generally offend me more than any lyrics could.

[grind/bro]

POST THE DRAMA FUCK IT Willa BE A MAN.

[Hollow]

im pretty fucking sick of hearing the "shows are a place where you can be your self blah blah friends blah blah dont judge someone on how they dress blah blah positive energy blah blah straight edge blah unity blah blah lets fucking move this shit." shtick from some asshole wearing a pro fit and basketball shorts who makes fun of 'indie kids' and only listens to bands with college lettering on their t shirts.

Puff wears camo shorts and usually either a Terror or Hatebreed shirt to most shows. He's the size of a brick shithouse and is in the Navy. He also votes NDP, chats with anyone who chats with him, and is friends with a crusty asshole like me.

I've been hearing this crap from so many people for so long, and it usually comes down to "I met one jerk once". Making a hardcore scene more diverse means you can't like someone just because of the way they dress, or the music they like. Sure, there are people that dress and act like that here and there. Just like there are skinny kids in skinny jeans who only listen to "experimental" hardcore and bitch about dudes in crews.

Basically, we are all assholes, so stop pretending like your better than someone else because of the sub-genre of the sub-genre you listen to.

[ZACH ATTACK]

I don't care who anybody complains about as long as they also don't go on about how important it is to be your self. We all know people who go on and on about how important individuality is and how awesome it is being positive all the time and then take the first chance they get to bitch hipsters or scene kids or whatever, and I think that's kind of what Ian's getting at. Personally, I couldn't care less about how someone dresses or what music they listen to, but if they're going to tell me int's important to be yourself and stay positive, and then start complianing about how other people dress or the music they listen to, then yeah, I'll call them out for looking like every other kid in their subculture and being an asshole.

[Hollow]

It was the specificity which irked me. Getting fed up with the blatant hypocrisy inherent in any sub-culture is well and fine, but when you then turn around and say "AND IT'S ALL THESE SPECIFIC KIDS WHO ARE DOING IT" you end up doing exactly what you were bitching about before. If he had just said 'man, the hypocrisy of punk rock really gets to me, like when kids go on about being individuals and then rag on people for being different than them" then I would have wholeheartedly agreed with him.

[ZACH ATTACK]

I don't know man, I don't think it's that unreasonable. We've all seen thousands of bands made up of dudes in basketball shorts and gorilla buscuits t-shirts talking about keepin it posi one second and then talking about how much hipsters suck the next. It's an unfortunate fact of life in our culture and I'm willing to bet it happens just as much in the North West where youth crew is popular as much as you bands in Toronto that look like they stepped right out of 1986 making all the same hypocrisies. I don't want to speak for Ian, but I think it's pretty fair to say that had I grown up here I'd complain about the same specifics because that's what's popular. It creates a certain frame of reference. But noone got singled out, and I don't think I've heard anybody who posts here who dresses like that and listens to that type of music making such hypocritical statements, so there's really no need for anybody to get defensive.

[Hollow]

I don't know man, I don't think it's that unreasonable. We've all seen thousands of bands made up of dudes in basketball shorts and gorilla buscuits t-shirts talking about keepin it posi one second and then talking about how much hipsters suck the next. No one got singled out, and I don't think I've heard anybody who posts here who dresses like that and listens to that type of music making such hypocritical statements, so there's really no need for anybody to get defensive.

I'm not being defensive. I'm saying he needs to consider his words more carefully.

[ian]

im pretty fucking sick of hearing the "shows are a place where you can be your self blah blah friends blah blah dont judge someone on how they dress blah blah positive energy blah blah straight edge blah unity blah blah lets fucking move this shit." shtick from some asshole wearing a pro fit and basketball shorts who makes fun of 'indie kids' and only listens to bands with college lettering on their t shirts.

Puff wears camo shorts and usually either a Terror or Hatebreed shirt to most shows. He's the size of a brick shithouse and is in the Navy. He also votes NDP, chats with anyone who chats with him, and is friends with a crusty asshole like me.

I've been hearing this crap from so many people for so long, and it usually comes down to "I met one jerk once". Making a hardcore scene more diverse means you can't like someone just because of the way they dress, or the music they like. Sure, there are people that dress and act like that here and there. Just like there are skinny kids in skinny jeans who only listen to "experimental" hardcore and bitch about dudes in crews.

Basically, we are all assholes, so stop pretending like your better than someone else because of the sub-genre of the sub-genre you listen to.

im not sure if some of this is directed at me or if the 'you' is being used in a general way, either way your totally right. im not sure if what i said came across clear enough. what i was doing wasn't taking a stab at the way people dress just incase thats what you thought. for instance i got drunk with tambo last night. he was wearing a bane shirt and had a pro fit on. and i actually own both of these articles of clothing too. what i meant was directly related to the 'i like hardcore because it allows me to be myself and express my unique identity and if you dont express the same unique identity as me youre a pretentious loser' attitude. again, im not actually sure if we're on the same page or not.

[Hollow]

im pretty fucking sick of hearing the "shows are a place where you can be your self blah blah friends blah blah dont judge someone on how they dress blah blah positive energy blah blah straight edge blah unity blah blah lets fucking move this shit." shtick from some asshole wearing a pro fit and basketball shorts who makes fun of 'indie kids' and only listens to bands with college lettering on their t shirts.

Puff wears camo shorts and usually either a Terror or Hatebreed shirt to most shows. He's the size of a brick shithouse and is in the Navy. He also votes NDP, chats with anyone who chats with him, and is friends with a crusty asshole like me.

I've been hearing this crap from so many people for so long, and it usually comes down to "I met one jerk once". Making a hardcore scene more diverse means you can't like someone just because of the way they dress, or the music they like. Sure, there are people that dress and act like that here and there. Just like there are skinny kids in skinny jeans who only listen to "experimental" hardcore and bitch about dudes in crews.

Basically, we are all assholes, so stop pretending like your better than someone else because of the sub-genre of the sub-genre you listen to.

im not sure if some of this is directed at me or if the 'you' is being used in a general way, either way your totally right. im not sure if what i said came across clear enough. what i was doing wasn't taking a stab at the way people dress just incase thats what you thought. for instance i got drunk with tambo last night. he was wearing a bane shirt and had a pro fit on. and i actually own both of these articles of clothing too. what i meant was directly related to the 'i like hardcore because it allows me to be myself and express my unique identity and if you dont express the same unique identity as me youre a pretentious loser' attitude. again, im not actually sure if we're on the same page or not.

Okay, well obviously there was some miscommunication, and I'm sorry for that. If that's what you originally meant, then I totally agree with you. Using a supposedly open and welcoming sub-culture to turn around and be condemning and judgmental of others is disgusting, and I've been railing against it for years.

[ian]

haha that started becoming a lot clearer after my last post.

[Hollow]

haha that started becoming a lot clearer after my last post.

Yeah, sorry, this is somewhat of an obsession for me. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are parts of hardcore that annoy me. For example:

Puff: I love Hatebreed.

Me: Hatebreed sucks.

Puff: No, you suck.

We've been having this argument for pretty much the entirety of our friendship. Also:

Jordan: I <3 Posi

Me: Posi is for pederasts and crack addicts.

Jordan: (rapes small child)

But being annoyed with an aspect of the subculture and straight up making people feel unwelcome because of the subculture they choose to associate with are two different things. As much as I dislike those kinds of music, doesn't mean that Puff and Jordan aren't welcome to love them, listen to them, and talk about them.

Eh, I dunno. I'm just really big on keeping hardcore as open as possible.

[ZACH ATTACK]

The only acceptable definition of hardcore is my narrow definition of it. If anybody disagrees it's obviously because they wear basketball shorts and flat brims.

[grind/bro]

Eh, I dunno. I'm just really big on keeping hardcore as open as possible.

To paraphrase, let's not keep it so open that our brains fall out.